# Dumb astronauts: How did this movie trope start? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 6, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572 "2017-07-06T00:08:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/21 "2017-07-06T18:44:22Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > For a real laugh, look at some of the astronauts in the old Twilight Zones. They were essentially truck drivers from the Bronx in space. > > But the real impetus for “dumb people in space” is that it’s hard to identify with astronauts. They are super-smart, very disciplined, and very painstaking. So a movie with _actual_ astronauts would be probably very tedious. I love the scenario in _ **Destination: Moon** _. The scientists/engineers in charge of the project perform an unauthorized launch before “sinister forces” in Washington can prevent them from taking off. When their electronics expert comes down with appendicitis (or some other ailment), grease monkey “Joe” is conscripted as the fourth crew member. They fly to the Moon and back with no specialized training or contingency planning whatsoever. Amazing! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/22 "2017-07-06T18:54:09Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Gravity, Alien: Covenant, Life, Europa Report… where the entire premise is “fancy spaceship, dumb humans, something eats them”? Why are the astronauts getting dumber and dumber, to be mindlessly killed off like teenagers in a horror movie? Who was dumb in Gravity? ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/23 "2017-07-06T19:06:54Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Who was dumb in Gravity? Yeah, nobody dumb in \*Gravity \*or _The Martian_ - whole lot of smart in the latter one. Sadly _Life_, after a decent start, had ten times more dumb than _Abbot and Costello._ They could have sent _Mr. Bean_ into space and gotten better results. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/24 "2017-07-06T19:16:28Z")
Uh, **Europa Report** is one of the most realistic sci-fi movies out there. Granted, it’s a boring movie if your expectation is to see muscle bound guys smoking cigars and hunting down aliens with flame throwers. But for an intelligent sci fi flick, **ER** is a damn fine movie. (Which, ironically, is why it flopped in the box office) ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/25 "2017-07-06T19:32:35Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > For a real laugh, look at some of the astronauts in the old Twilight Zones. They were essentially **truck drivers from the Bronx in space**. You’ve hit on one of the core factors in this trope: in this context, space exploration isn’t some noble endeavor meriting the highest efforts of humanity’s best and brightest. It’s a job: [Quote=Elton John] And all this science I don’t understand It’s just my job five days a week A rocket man, a rocket man [/quote] Truckers in space. Merchant marines in space. Martinet officers and schlub sailors in space. Not the cream of the crop. Not the best of the best of the best, SIR. Just Joe Sixpack in space. And that’s why they can be dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/26 "2017-07-06T19:45:22Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Who died in The Martian? :smack: Sorry, I confused scenes of it with Interstellar. Martian was actually great. My bad. > [@Trancephalic](#): > > There was a lot of handling the idiot ball in the original Alien, most involving the characters putting their lives, and the lives of their colleagues, in jeopardy for the sake of a cat. True, true. Maybe nostalgia colored my perception. Weaver was great, though. > [@Zsofia](#): > > Arrival had smart people, but they had to introduce human complications from not-smart people. The scientists-who-are-supposed-to-be-smart were smart. Yeah!!! Probably my all-time favorite movie. > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Who was dumb in Gravity? Seriously? The Sandra Bullock character. > **[Gravity: my most overrated film](https://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2014/nov/11/gravity-my-most-overrated-film)** > > Forget the five-star reviews and out-of-this-world technical wizardry – Alfonso Cuarón’s epic space odyssey is the cinematic equivalent of a drum solo, writes Alan Evans Interstellar had a similar problem with a damsel-in-distress astronaut. Those movies just don’t do justice to professional women, much less astronauts, making them seem like hapless, hysterical crybabies. > [@Grrr](#): > > Uh, **Europa Report** is one of the most realistic sci-fi movies out there. > > Granted, it’s a boring movie if your expectation is to see muscle bound guys smoking cigars and hunting down aliens with flame throwers. > > But for an intelligent sci fi flick, **ER** is a damn fine movie. (Which, ironically, is why it flopped in the box office) Am I misremembering this movie? Didn’t they encounter a giant space squid, try to chase it, and got eaten? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/27 "2017-07-06T19:54:09Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > : > Am I misremembering this movie? Didn’t they encounter a giant space squid, try to chase it, and got eaten? It’s been awhile since I’ve seen it too. But I don’t recall them chasing anything. They landed on Eroupa and were basically like “Holy shit! Squid monster!” (It took them a minute to figure that out) They did try to save their friend but other than that, the rest of the movie was them trying to get the fuck out of there. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/28 "2017-07-06T19:58:42Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > How did NASA go from sending people to the Moon and back, and saving Apollo 13 to losing the Challenger because they decided to launch when it was too cold, and losing Columbia when the same problem had been seen in four previous launches but never fixed? The [Apollo 1 disaster](https://airandspace.si.edu/explore-and-learn/topics/apollo/apollo-program/orbital-missions/apollo1.cfm) predates the moon landing. In the documentary _Moon Shot,_ Mercury astronaut Deke Slayton attributes the problem to what he calls [“Go Fever”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_fever) – basically, everyone’s so focused on pushing forward towards success that they tend to ignore potential problems and mistakes. It’s only after a spectacular disaster that people sit back and think, “Gee, maybe we shouldn’t launch the space shuttle at below-freezing temperatures…” ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/29 "2017-07-06T20:23:28Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > In the documentary _Moon Shot,_ Mercury astronaut Deke Slayton attributes the problem to what he calls [“Go Fever”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_fever) – basically, everyone’s so focused on pushing forward towards success that they tend to ignore potential problems and mistakes. It’s only after a spectacular disaster that people sit back and think, “Gee, maybe we shouldn’t launch the space shuttle at below-freezing temperatures…” They were still trying to bullshit the investigation until Feynman cut through it all with a tiny C-clamp and a pitcher of ice water. And of course, maybe you don’t give the contract for the boosters to a company in a landlocked state so you don’t have to put seams in the rocket in the first place. Pork killed that crew. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/30 "2017-07-06T21:12:11Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > It’s been awhile since I’ve seen it too. But I don’t recall them chasing anything. They landed on Eroupa and were basically like “Holy shit! Squid monster!” (It took them a minute to figure that out) They did try to save their friend but other than that, the rest of the movie was them trying to get the fuck out of there. I’ll take your word for it. I remember loving the first half and then walking away disappointed at the silliness after the second half, but maybe the crew tried their best when faced with unexpected space squid ™. My own biases towards uberastronauts is showing, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/31 "2017-07-06T21:38:37Z")
I’m not buying the complaint with _Gravity_. Yeah, I’ll admit that Bullock’s survival mostly wasn’t due to intelligence. But what it was due to, mostly, was plucky determination, and that’s a good thing, too. Nor was she ever particularly stupid. She was in over her head on the piloting, but then, that wasn’t her job, _and she still managed it anyway_. And yes, she spent a lot of time coping with her emotions, but she did cope with them and got the job done. And _The Martian_ is not only an exception to the OP’s claim; it’s arguably the exception that completely disproves the rule. I defy you to find any other movie, from any era, that so exemplifies a person smarting their way through their problems. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/32 "2017-07-06T21:50:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And _The Martian_ is not only an exception to the OP’s claim; it’s arguably the exception that completely disproves the rule. I defy you to find any other movie, from any era, that so exemplifies a person smarting their way through their problems. “I’m going to have to science the \*shit \*out of this!” ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/33 "2017-07-06T22:00:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m not buying the complaint with _Gravity_. Yeah, I’ll admit that Bullock’s survival mostly wasn’t due to intelligence. But what it was due to, mostly, was plucky determination, and that’s a good thing, too. Nor was she ever particularly stupid. She was in over her head on the piloting, but then, that wasn’t her job, _and she still managed it anyway_. And yes, she spent a lot of time coping with her emotions, but she did cope with them and got the job done. Maybe “stupid” was too strong a word, but I strongly believe that a character like hers would not be suitable for spaceflight (unless this is the distant future, where space travel is commoditized). Why could they have not picked a more emotionally stable, better trained, biomedical engineer? “Plucky determination” seems a terrible excuse for “ability to remain calm and think quickly under fire”. She freaked the fuck out multiple times and barely made it through, mostly with help from the other character, and her behavior jeopardized survival for both of them. She was a risk to the mission in a way an astronaut should not need to be. But then again, look at the president. Maybe it’s a sign of the times when brashness is an acceptable substitute for thoughtfulness – in space or on earth. Compare her to the leads in Contact, Alien, Terminator, Arrival, and to a lesser extent even Rogue One and Guardians of the Galaxy… she’s just a crybaby in comparison. If she were inexplicably the last astronaut remaining, then fine, her performance in space was admirable. But how was she selected for the mission to begin with in a field with so many better candidates?! I hope they do not pick astronauts based on dramatic appeal. > [@](#): > > And _The Martian_ is not only an exception to the OP’s claim; it’s arguably the exception that completely disproves the rule. I defy you to find any other movie, from any era, that so exemplifies a person smarting their way through their problems. Absolutely. It was one of the good ones, and sorry I confused the matter by suggesting that someone in it died. ---
**Author:** ![ssgenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@ssgenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssgenius)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/34 "2017-07-06T23:07:06Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > They were still trying to bullshit the investigation until Feynman cut through it all with a tiny C-clamp and a pitcher of ice water. > > And of course, maybe you don’t give the contract for the boosters to a company in a landlocked state so you don’t have to put seams in the rocket in the first place. Pork killed that crew. Actually, they were aware of the troubles with the O-rings in cold weather which is why they delayed the launch until later in the day (when it was warmer but still the coldest launch ever) so it was a measured risk that was thought to be acceptable. (Even the engineers of the solid rocket boosters were divided on their conclusions As for the seams in the rocket, no matter where it was built, it had to be transported somehow and transportation is easier in smaller sections. Yes, I know that other sections (most notably the external tank) were transported by barge. The entire failure is very interesting, a lot of little items combined to create a major disaster. Same thing with the Colombia accident. They were aware that there MAY have been a problem but didn’t think it to be serious enough to warrant further actions. Hindsight is always 20/20!!! ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/35 "2017-07-08T17:49:06Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > Abbott & Costello went to Mars in 1953…except they were so dumb they landed in New Orleans instead and ultimately ended up on Venus. In '57-59 the 3 Stooges made at a feature and two shorts with them going to Venus in each one. Not sure how many other spaceflight adventures they got into. In the 60s there was of course the late-great Bill Dana’s Jose Jimenez. Also in the 60s, Major Healey on _I Dream of Jeanie_ was something of a dolt. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/36 "2017-07-08T18:39:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I defy you to find any other movie, from any era, that so exemplifies a person smarting their way through their problems. [Ava?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhcU6_wCiMo) She, sorry, it managed to succeed in the AI-box experiment, after all. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/37 "2017-07-08T18:53:59Z")
I can recall being surprised that Astronauts aren’t more self sufficient. That every move is planned, choreographed and endlessly rehearsed on Earth during training. The Hubbell repair is an example. We have to move away from that if deep space missions are ever attempted. uh Houston, we have a problem isn’t going to cut it. We need problem solving engineers in space that can fix it themselves. Chracters like Scotty and Miles O’Brien are needed on real life missions. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/38 "2017-07-08T18:58:07Z")
They do all that pre-planning not because they have to, but because they can. Any engineer would do the same. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/39 "2017-07-08T19:46:56Z")
A lot may have had to do with the earliest astronauts/candidates themselves. Once they found out about it, former all-star-hero-stud test pilots did not take kindly to an essentially passive role as cargo (in Chuck Yeager’s famous phrase, “Spam in a can.”) on what was basically a glorified ballistic missile, following a bunch of rhesus and spider monkeys, macaques, and chimpanzees which had pretty much the same mission responsibilities as they were given. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572/40 "2017-07-08T21:14:53Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > : > Interstellar had a similar problem with a damsel-in-distress astronaut. What? Are you talking about the one scene where she refused to give up on grabbing the research data computer on the ocean planet? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-astronauts-how-did-this-movie-trope-start/790572.md?page=3)