# Dumb Grammar question of the Day

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-grammar-question-of-the-day/232730>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [March 5, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-grammar-question-of-the-day/232730 "2004-03-05T18:32:50Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 7\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\
**Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-grammar-question-of-the-day/232730/1 "2004-03-05T18:32:50Z")

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I’m from the Northeast, and if I wanted to have my room painted, I’d say:

```
“The room needs to be painted.”

```

However, in western Pennsylvania, where I recently lived, they’d say

```
 “The room needs painted.”

```

This drove me nuts. Are they right, and one doesn’t need the “to be?”

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**Author:** ![jebert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@jebert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jebert)\
**Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-grammar-question-of-the-day/232730/2 "2004-03-05T19:03:32Z")

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That must be a Pennsylvania regionalism. I’ve heard it from people from that area as well.

I would certainly use “to be” in that sentence, or perhaps, “That room needs painting.”

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**Author:** ![DogMom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9c0ed/32.png) [@DogMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DogMom)\
**Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-grammar-question-of-the-day/232730/3 "2004-03-05T19:11:02Z")

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\<holds up hand\> It’s evidently an Indiana thing too. I’d never heard it growing up in Michigan. I moved to NE Indiana and it’s all over.

Not trying to be offensive here: Since you said it’s in Pennsylvania, I wonder if it’s got anything to do with proximity to Amish / Plain people? Maybe a usage common to their speech that’s entered general speech in the area? Because we’ve got a lot of Amish here as well.

Just a thought.

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**Author:** ![dinoboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dinoboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dinoboy)\
**Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-grammar-question-of-the-day/232730/4 "2004-03-05T19:15:12Z")

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Ask yourself “what does the room need?”

The room needs _to be_ painted

The room needs paint_ing_

Unless the room is doing the painting (past tense), “the room painted” makes no sense.

The room _was_ painted.

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**Author:** ![gluteus\_maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f17d59/32.png) [@gluteus\_maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gluteus_maximus)\
**Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-grammar-question-of-the-day/232730/5 "2004-03-05T19:16:12Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> “Or Not. Ats da question.” - Hamlet

Dis here site [needs read](http://www.pittsburghese.com/) by younz.

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**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\
**Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-grammar-question-of-the-day/232730/6 "2004-03-05T19:23:31Z")

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I have also encountered this structure in rural south-central (Appalachian) Ohio and it annoyed me there too (I’m from west-central Ohio).

I wonder whether there are any forms in German dialects that could have served as a model for this usage.

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**Author:** ![gluteus\_maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f17d59/32.png) [@gluteus\_maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gluteus_maximus)\
**Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-grammar-question-of-the-day/232730/7 "2004-03-05T19:24:44Z")

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In case yinz (alternative to ‘younz’) is too lazy to follow da link above:

> [@](#):
>
> from [here](http://www.pittsburghese.com/cgi-bin/trans.bat?phrase=The+room+needs+to+be+painted.):
> 
> \*\*Normal English Usage:
> 
> _The room needs to be painted._
> 
> Da translation is:
> 
> _Da room needs painted._\*\*

At’s Pittsburghese for yinz!

Now, what keller d’yinz want dis room painted, anyhow?