# Dumb LOTR Q: **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [September 18, 2017, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-lotr-q/796614 "2017-09-18T04:58:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-lotr-q/796614/1 "2017-09-18T04:58:30Z")
If Sauron is a Maiar…then why is he “Middle-Earths problem” and his fellow Maiar, Gandalf and Saruman are only to ‘advise the people of Middle-Earth’, and not to directly confront Sauron?? Clean up your own mess Valar! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-lotr-q/796614/2 "2017-09-18T05:00:33Z")
Because the last time the Valar went to war with one of their own in Middle-Earth, they destroyed most of Beleriand in the process. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-lotr-q/796614/3 "2017-09-18T09:31:01Z")
Get a map of the world from the_Silmarillion_. Look for the Ered Luin, or Blue Mountains. They are a big mountain range running down the center of the continent. They sort of marked the eastern edge of Elvish civilization. Get a map of the world from _Lord of the Rings_. The Blue Mountains are a handful of mountains, on the end of a peninsula, on the northwestern edge of the continent. All of the events in the _Silmarillion_ took place in lands that are now deep underneath the ocean. When the Ainur went to war, they broke the planet. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-lotr-q/796614/4 "2017-09-18T17:33:50Z")
The world of the Elves and Valar was coming to an end and the age of Man was drawing close. Mankind had to prove they were worthy of taking on the mantle of custodians of the Earth by putting on their big-boy pants and defeating the final enemy of the Old World. The Valar did not abandon man to his own devices, but sent the Wizards as advisors. The Elves were leaving but a few did lend a hand. That’s also why the Eagles did not simply take the Ring. It was a test. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-lotr-q/796614/5 "2017-09-18T17:58:02Z")
> [@caligulathegod](#): > > …That’s also why the Eagles did not simply take the Ring. … Not to mention that Sauron knew the Great Eagles served Manwë and would have sent all he could to stop them as they approached Mordor. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-lotr-q/796614/6 "2017-09-18T18:08:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Because the last time the Valar went to war with one of their own in Middle-Earth, they destroyed most of Beleriand in the process. There’s some variation in the different texts, but it wasn’t even the Valar who destroyed Beleriand. Eonwe, a Maia, was there but it was the Vanyar, the remaining Noldor (including those who stayed in Valinor) and the Edain who fought that war (also Earendil whose status at that point I can’t remember). Hell of a conflict anyway. I think. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-lotr-q/796614/7 "2017-09-18T18:14:21Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > There’s some variation in the different texts, but it wasn’t even the Valar who destroyed Beleriand. Eonwe, a Maia, was there but it was the Vanyar, the remaining Noldor (including those who stayed in Valinor) and the Edain who fought that war (also Earendil whose status at that point I can’t remember). Hell of a conflict anyway. > > I think. _Ahem_ Thinking about that conflict a tiny bit more :smack: there was of course a Vala and quite a few Maia on the baddies side… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-lotr-q/796614/8 "2017-09-18T20:14:53Z")
No, the Elves, Humans, and servants of Morgoth did their fair share of devastation, but it was the ordinary horrible war sort of devastation. The World wasn’t broken until the Valar stepped in and said “enough”. Or more precisely, said _ **ENOUGH!** _". ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-lotr-q/796614/9 "2017-09-18T22:41:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, the Elves, Humans, and servants of Morgoth did their fair share of devastation, but it was the ordinary horrible war sort of devastation. The World wasn’t broken until the Valar stepped in and said “enough”. Or more precisely, said _ **ENOUGH!** _". During the War of Wrath? I’m not sure that’s supported by the texts, although at the war’s end it’s the Valar who cast Morgoth out of Arda. The Vala certainly broke the world in combat with Melkor way back before the Elves awoke, but the whole Silmaril debacle fell on Elvish shoulders, albeit with the odd nudge from greater powers. A bit like LotR and Men (and Hobbits) really. I mean, even back when the Numenoreans overstepped their bounds, the Vala didn’t directly intervene, but kicked the matter upstairs to Eru.