# Dumb people - are they happier? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2001, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027 "2001-08-25T01:19:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![xanakis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/7bcc69/32.png) [@xanakis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanakis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/1 "2001-08-25T01:19:40Z")
“Dumb” as in “lacking in intellect” not as in “unable to speak”. What I mean is: - they can hold down mundane jobs without constantly feeling guilty that they should be doing something “better” - they have lower standards when it comes to art eg they can watch appalling trashy TV comedies or lowest common denominator films and quiz shows and actually enjoy them - they dont spend time contemplating the Great Unanswerable Philosophical Questions of life, they just get on with living life, raising their families and trying to have as good a time as they can along the way Is it better to be dumb or clever in terms of day-to-day happiness? ---
**Author:** ![Ross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@Ross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ross)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/2 "2001-08-25T01:27:23Z")
I’m certainly happy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![djf750](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@djf750](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/djf750)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/3 "2001-08-25T01:39:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ross \* > \*\*I’m certainly happy. > > 🙂 \*\* me too…i vote dumb ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/4 "2001-08-25T02:02:51Z")
Don’t blame me, I voted with the majority. You have to realize that 50% of the people is below average. 🙂 Seriously, I think people who live the simple life now do so because other people are doing the complex things. Only when the so-called leaders prove to be inefficient the simple-minded folks get hurt. And then they notice. It is a very old history. In the end being clever is better for your peace of mind, but it doesn’t guarantee happiness. Remember that many great thinkers did have unhappy lives. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/5 "2001-08-25T02:13:29Z")
I would say that your qualities of “intelligent” people are actually qualities of average people. Ignoring that I would also say that the amount of happiness you have is equal to most people. Too much happiness or sadness would be unhealthy:) ---
**Author:** ![TheNerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@TheNerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheNerd)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/6 "2001-08-25T02:22:02Z")
Well, I’m going to go ahead and say that I think it’s more likely that unhappy people are more intelligent. Of the people I know that I consider intelligent, there is a much higher incidence of depression than in the people I consider normal/average. And genuinely happy people often strike me as either dumb or unrealistic, but I’m willing to admit that that is quite possibly colored by my cynical outlook. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/7 "2001-08-25T02:46:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xanakis \* > \*\*they just get on with living life, raising their families and trying to have as good a time as they can along the way > \*\* And how is this dumb? ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/8 "2001-08-25T02:56:53Z")
I’d venture that the answer is yes. When I was an adolescent and overthinking everything, analyzing world problems, fretting about philosophies, worrying about my potential and living up to expectations, and watching my “gifted” friends doing the same, I came the realization that I might be happier if I was dumber. I thought “God I wish my biggest problem was picking which eyeshadow to wear.” Not that stupid people don’t have problems, of course. But I think highly intelligent people have the ability and the propensity to overthink everything and make themselves miserable. It’s harder to live in the moment. Of course, I’m a pessimistic person who has always surrounded herself with pessimistic friends, so perhaps I’m attributing this incorrectly. It may not be intelligence I’m talking about, but rather curmudgeonly tendencies. ---
**Author:** ![Ross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@Ross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ross)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/9 "2001-08-25T03:04:04Z")
Alright, a proper answer. Technically if we’re going by IQ I’m above average, but I’d postulate that most of my problems have come by using that extra 6 points of Quotient. For example, my life right now is practically idyllic, wife, child on the way, etc, except for (a) my degree, and (b) stupid pseudo-intellectual arguments among friends about evolution and such. Plus intelligence doesn’t imply motivation, and an unmotivated (or lazy) smart guy is among the most miserable of folk. He can see everything that needs done, he just can’t be bothered to do it… so he gets to deal with the guilt, too. Better I suppose to be an emotionally mature intelligent person (ie: enlightened). It can be done. I’m striving that way myself. I’ll see you when we get there… if we ever get there… ---
**Author:** ![xanakis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/7bcc69/32.png) [@xanakis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanakis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/10 "2001-08-25T03:16:30Z")
For me, I think Im generally happy but (unfortunately) I probably lean toward the clever camp (although, this is really for others to judge, not me). I say “unfortunately” because most of the things in life that make me happy are the simple “dumb” things - hanging with friends, family, Jean Claude Van Damme films etc. And most of the things that make me sad are usually due to overanalysing situations. So if I could get rid of the overanalytical aspect of my personality (ie somehow become dumb) then surely, logically I would be even happier. I would happily accept my dumbness…er my dumbnity…er my dumbnosity (oh you get the point). ---
**Author:** ![Screengazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@Screengazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Screengazer)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/11 "2001-08-25T03:26:54Z")
You know, that is an excellent question. Over many years I’ve heard others comment that someone else was ‘too stupid to worry’ about things and I have come in contact with several people who are obviously mentally retarded but able to work and live alone with very little supervision. In many ways, I think, yes, they are happier because they don’t know what to worry about in relation to others or even, sometimes, the national environment. They know the basics, like no stealing, killing, breaking laws, rent needs to be paid, so do bills and they must work well enough to have enough money for this but most are not concerned over having expensive apartments. Their pleasures are almost always simple, along with the way they make friends, associate with others and tackle problems. They are not concerned with all of the different levels of friendship, because to them you are a friend to be accepted, a casual acquaintance, a boss or a stranger. They don’t get into the manipulative complexities that we get into like good friends, casual friends, slight friends, power friends, working only friends, home only friends, professional friends, friends used for things and friends that have to be watched or friends that can be powerful enemies or best friends to tell all to and best friends to not tell all to. They don’t worry about a lot of things because they don’t know about them or if they do, they don’t know how they are affected by them. In some cases, they don’t even know that they should be worried. So, I would say that in most cases, being ‘stupid’ can equal a greater happiness. Even in the level of kids, who, having not learned many adult things, are ignorant of many facts and are therefore much happier now than they will be later on in life because they don’t know what to worry about or do not have to worry about things. They’re not stupid, just uneducated in some adult areas. ---
**Author:** ![23skidoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/f04885/32.png) [@23skidoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/23skidoo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/12 "2001-08-25T07:48:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xanakis \* > \*\*“Dumb” as in “lacking in intellect” not as in “unable to speak”. > > What I mean is: > > - they can hold down mundane jobs without constantly feeling guilty that they should be doing something “better” > > - they have lower standards when it comes to art eg they can watch appalling trashy TV comedies or lowest common denominator films and quiz shows and actually enjoy them > > - they dont spend time contemplating the Great Unanswerable Philosophical Questions of life, they just get on with living life, raising their families and trying to have as good a time as they can along the way > > Is it better to be dumb or clever in terms of day-to-day happiness? \*\* If you are presently holding down a job, all the while feeling guilty that you should be doing something better, this does not make you clever, it makes you lazy. If you want to do something “better”, go do it. For some people, regardless of intelligence, a job is just a way to make money. I think that intelligence is not _the_ deciding factor of happiness. Rather, how indifferent you are to others opinions affects happiness to a larger degree. You have a boring job? Who cares? It pays well, or “enough”. You like wrestling? So what, it’s fun. You don’t spend time pondering the Great Unanswerable Philosophical Questions of Life? Of course not, that’s no fun. OR Of course, it’s great fun! The happiest people (that I know) are the ones who don’t worry about others’ opinions. Some are "smart’, some ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/13 "2001-08-25T12:27:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheNerd \* > \*\*Well, I’m going to go ahead and say that I think it’s more likely that unhappy people are more intelligent. > > Of the people I know that I consider intelligent, there is a much higher incidence of depression than in the people I consider normal/average. > > And genuinely happy people often strike me as either dumb or unrealistic, but I’m willing to admit that that is quite possibly colored by my cynical outlook. \*\* I didn’t know anyone who made it past high school had that attitude. Oh yeah, only the shallow people are happy. All the deep people know what’s going on so they’re depressed. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Lodrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@Lodrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lodrain)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/14 "2001-08-25T15:15:57Z")
Taking a few points from the other posters, I’d say that intelligence really has very little to do with unhappiness, but rather, how much one cares about the world outside his or her self (and this could be, in a way, related to intelligence, but I’ve seen some very sweet people who’s lights were slightly dim). I’d say that smart people are moodier, partly because society breeds the image that the intelligentsia sit in corners, reading Tolstoy and pondering philosophical questions, and partly because those who lie at the right end of the bell curve tend to over-analyze, and compare themselves to those whom they consider superiors. I sometimes wish I had not been born with the genetic and environmental accident that was my IQ. I am extremely moody, due to my adolescence, and due to the fact that my world-view is extremely critical and cynical. I know others like myself, and find myself comparing myself to them. In other words, intelligence doesn’t equal unhappiness. Co-miseration equals misery, and that may or may not have anything to do with intelligence. There are my ehh… (thinks, gives up) aw, heck, two _Pfennig_. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/15 "2001-08-25T17:24:49Z")
This is one of the dumbest questions I’ve ever come across. Are you happy now, **xanakis**? By the way, I am a very happy person, and I resent the implication. We have too many stereotypes to fight against with introducing another one thank you very much. How dare you!..just kidding. ---
**Author:** ![TheNerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@TheNerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheNerd)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/16 "2001-08-25T17:51:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > \*\* > I didn’t know anyone who made it past high school had that attitude. Oh yeah, only the shallow people are happy. All the deep people know what’s going on so they’re depressed. > \*\* That is not what I meant. What I meant is that depression is a neurochemical condition, which seems to be correlated to intelligence. Correlation is not (necessarily) causation, which is why I framed my response as “it’s _more likely_ that unhappy people are more intelligent”. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/17 "2001-08-25T18:30:07Z")
I like to consider myself reasonably intelligent, and pretty happy, at least at this stage of my life. And I attribute a lot of my happiness to my intelligence. A few of the things that my brain allows me to do: **Adapt** I know that I can survive in just about any situation; I’ve spent a lot of time proving this. I can figure out how to get nourishment, shelter, clothing, and start a base for long-term sustenance given almost any set of starting circumstances. This tends to make one feel pretty darned free. **Get Great Toys** The best things in life are pretty complicated. Computers, for instance, are sometimes a wee bit tricky. But to me, they make sense; I can make them do cool tricks. I can repair them. I can make weird stuff run on them. As it turns out, I can make a good living from them. And they are fun; man, are they fun. If you’ve never done a LAN party, you’re missing some amazing playtime. **Know My Priorities** I could be doing a lot more with my life. But I’m not. Know why? Because it wouldn’t make me happy. I have a job that provides me with money and interesting problems, and the US RDA of stress. Then I have hobbies… way too many of them. Late-night radio show. Guitar. D&D game I run every week. Painting. Sculpture. Old movies. New movies. There is so much to do, so much fun stuff to see and feel, that I will never have enough time to do all of it. Why spend all my time working? **Be of Use** I like to think that I’m a pretty useful guy to have around. Picking up skills is relatively easy for me; therefore, I tend to get called to fix swamp coolers, build dog-houses, read screenplays, edit resumes, and whatever else my friends need help with. I like being the kind of friend that people can count on, and being able to answer questions and be generally useful makes me proud. **Plan Ahead** I can often anticipate problems that will need to be dealt with in the future, and make arrangements to minimize them. I’m the guy who has a flashlight and extra water on what was supposed to be a two-hour daytime hike. I’m the one with the extra power cables at the LAN party. I’m the guy who takes the defensive driving course and the firearms safety course. It keeps me from having to deal with a lot of unhappy situations. I also preview my posts. **Make People Laugh** When I’m in form, I have a quick, strange wit. It makes the people around me laugh, and making people laugh makes me happy. There’s nothing as gratifying as reducing a roomful of serious business-types to helpless, tearful, nose-running laughter. **Research** I can also look up cites. > [@](#): > > _Ability_ Curiously, happiness tends to be unrelated to ‘intelligence’; at least to school-intelligence as measured by current IQ-tests. However ‘social skills’ do differentiate between happy and unhappy. Happiness is typically accompanied by social assertiveness and good empathy attributes. From [Advances in the Understanding of Happiness](http://www.eur.nl/fsw/personeel/soc/veenhoven/Pub1990s/97c-txte.rtf), by Ruut Veenhoven. Published in French in Revue Quebecoise de Psychologie, vol 18, 1997, pp 267-293 So, I’d have to say it’s unrelated. If I wasn’t smart, I think I could find other things to be happy about. Intelligence is just a tool; what you build with it is up to you. ---
**Author:** ![kgriffey79](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@kgriffey79](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kgriffey79)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/18 "2001-08-25T19:19:14Z")
They are probably RELATIVELY as happy as most people. Since they do not know that life could be better, they do not focus on that. Most people aren’t this dumb! They could be happier, they don’t know it, so they are happy! Matt Shepard ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/19 "2001-08-25T20:03:47Z")
When you say “dumb” or “stupid”, do you really mean people of below-average intelligence, or simply people of average intelligence? My experience with the mentally handicapped is limited, but it is a sad truth that many of them are aware of their disabilities and are depressed or frustrated by their inability to do things that other people do. Sure, some are very happy people, but I think the idea that they are all happy is a lie invented by the non-handicapped to make themselves feel better. As for people of average intelligence as opposed to above-average intelligence, the former often wish to be smarter if only because it makes tackling day-to-day problems a bit easier. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2001, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027/20 "2001-08-25T20:33:04Z")
**MrVisible** : A fine post 🙂 . I largely agree. **xanakis** : Not sure I’m all that crazy about your definition of dumb 😉 . > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xanakis \* > “Dumb” as in “lacking in intellect” not as in “unable to speak”. > > What I mean is: > > - they can hold down mundane jobs without constantly feeling guilty that they should be doing something “better” ``` My job's pretty mundane. I feel not a shred of guilt for "not doing something better". Far as I'm concerned jobs exist only to pay my necessary expenses. If I could get by working not a shred, I'd be overjoyed. ``` ( Lest anyone get the wrong idea, I’ll mention as an aside that I believe in doing my job to the best of my ability and I take pride in a job well done. I just don’t take it home and I won’t do it for free 🙂 ). > [@](#): > > - they have lower standards when it comes to art eg they can watch appalling trashy TV comedies or lowest common denominator films and quiz shows and actually enjoy them Well, I’m on the fence here. Depends how you define trash, I guess. You couldn’t pay me to watch _Tomcats_, but I love _Straight to Hell_ and _Killer Shrews_, which would probably pick up a similar numerical rating 😉 . I’m not enamored with _Three’s Company_, but I’ll happily watch _That 70’s Show_. I guess I’m mostly with you on the quiz shows, though you’ll catch me watching _Win Ben Stein’s Money_ on a slow day. But as I was telling someone else the other day, I’m also fond of a lot of “high-brow” entertainment as well 🙂 . I don’t see how liking _The Seventy Seal_ by Bergman, invalidates taking a certain pleasure in watching _Big, Bad Mama_. Frankly, though I can be picky at times, I’m generally pretty easy to entertain. > [@](#): > > - they dont spend time contemplating the Great Unanswerable Philosophical Questions of life, they just get on with living life, raising their families and trying to have as good a time as they can along the way I don’t see how doing the first would necessarily preclude doing the second. Have you read Matt Groening’s _Life in Hell_ panel on how to be an unrecognized genius? Because you seem to be buying into this theme of smart people as tortured souls. Not every intelligent person is a brooding, morose, socially maladroit shut-in, you know 🙂 . > [@](#): > > Is it better to be dumb or clever in terms of day-to-day happiness? I don’t think it makes a bit of difference. Or very little, at any rate. 'course maybe I’m saying that because I shade towards your definition of “dumb” 😃 . - Tamerlane [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumb-people-are-they-happier/78027.md?page=2)