# Dumbassery in Pamplona **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828 "2009-07-13T04:18:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/41 "2009-07-13T19:00:12Z")
Every time Michael Vick comes up, I think of this revered “tradition.” I mean, he got pretty medieval with the dogs - some eff’ed up stuff no doubt. And because of it, he lost a lot - his job, millions, two years of liberty. Odd that at this same point in history, in a “first world” western European country, some kooks annually tormet a bunch of bulls before leading them to a stadium to be bleed to death. Super eff’ed up. Bull fighting enthusiasts, defenders and apologists, you are some messed up folks. Seriously. Messed up. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/42 "2009-07-13T19:07:57Z")
The running of the bulls requires an occasional death to keep it exciting. If no one ever got gored the story would dry up rapidly. Like the occasional roller coaster disaster. It keeps the fear of death involved and increases the element of danger. That is what it is all about. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/43 "2009-07-13T19:09:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Climbing Everest is a completely made-up adventure, too. It’s not like you’re going up there to fetch something useful. Oh, but I complain about that as well! It’s completely made-up, and THEN I found out that the climbers leave their empty oxygen tanks and whatever-else-the-fuck-all up on the mountain because they’re too weak to carry them back down. That was the point when I became totally frothing in my loathing of people who climb Everest. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/44 "2009-07-13T19:23:09Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > That guy was an asshole. You’re not supposed to touch the bulls unless you want to die or are trying to get him off someone else. Fair enough, I didn’t know that. He said that it was a way to keep any of them from going after you, something about them thinking you were one of the herd. Either way it was still a cool photo. ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/45 "2009-07-13T20:46:22Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Seriously, dudes, can’t you think of a better way to display your maleness? How about streaking down the high street? Crushing beer cans on your forehead? Fart contest? Southern Europe is so awash with machismo that it’s laughable. You can barely walk around with all the puffy chests and smarmy antics. You gotta give these guys _some_ outlet. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/46 "2009-07-13T20:52:17Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > That guy was an asshole. You’re not supposed to touch the bulls unless you want to die or are trying to get him off someone else. Does the same apply to the rollergirls? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/47 "2009-07-13T21:03:30Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > You’re not supposed to touch the bulls unless you want to die or are trying to get him off I find it _disgusting_ the way I just trimmed your quote. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/48 "2009-07-13T21:53:11Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > In most risky activities the risks can be lessened by careful preparation and practice. How can one lessen the risk inherent in Russian Roulette? Two ways: - discretely remove the bullet from the chamber (preferred) - get a gun with more chambers ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/49 "2009-07-13T22:04:09Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Two ways: > > - discretely remove the bullet from the chamber (preferred) > - get a gun with more chambers Then it’s a different game, not Russian Roulette. Russian Roulette by definition leaves \*everything \*up to chance. And the more people in the game, the more likely it is that one will die. Sky divers and mountain climbers do everything possible to \*minimize \*risk. The good ones do, at least. They are really two different kinds of enterprise. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/50 "2009-07-13T22:07:33Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Every time Michael Vick comes up, I think of this revered “tradition.” I mean, he got pretty medieval with the dogs - some eff’ed up stuff no doubt. And because of it, he lost a lot - his job, millions, two years of liberty. Odd that at this same point in history, in a “first world” western European country, some kooks annually tormet a bunch of bulls before leading them to a stadium to be bleed to death. Super eff’ed up. Bull fighting enthusiasts, defenders and apologists, you are some messed up folks. Seriously. Messed up. I can see a pretty big contrast between dog fighting, which requires torturing the dog over a long period of time to turn it vicious, and then entering it in fight after fight to maul and be mauled by other dogs, until it’s finally too crippled to be any good any more, and a bull fight, where the bull is raised the same as any other cattle, and then fights only once before it is killed and eaten. Granted, the arena is not as quick a death as the slaughterhouse, but I don’t know that it’s really all the much worse. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/51 "2009-07-13T22:14:15Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I find it _disgusting_ the way I just trimmed your quote. ## I think it’d becoming. Bless me Padre for I have sinned. One time, during San Fermin in 1975, I was one of those sinners that ran [del]from[/del] the Bulls. But I swear that at no time did I attempt to become intimate with them in any imaginable fashion. In fact I believe I held the unofficial world record for the 100mts flat for at least the remainder of that year. Having said that, I’ve always hated corridas and when my dad – big fan – had them on TV I was always secretly rooting for the bull. I’m all for doing away with them along with any number of “traditions” that still remain involving harming animals in different ways. And no, I won’t go into the details of what those are. Suffice it to say they are barbaric no matter how anyone attempts to justify them. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/52 "2009-07-13T22:24:46Z")
> [@Shamozzle](#): > > Southern Europe is so awash with machismo that it’s laughable. You can barely walk around with all the puffy chests and smarmy antics. You gotta give these guys _some_ outlet. Tell me about it. Even our _legally married_ gay couples sport those puffy chests – and really hairy to boot. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/53 "2009-07-13T23:06:18Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > ## I think it’d becoming. > > Bless me Padre for I have sinned. One time, during San Fermin in 1975, I was one of those sinners that ran [del]from[/del] the Bulls. But I swear that at no time did I attempt to become intimate with them in any imaginable fashion. In fact I believe I held the unofficial world record for the 100mts flat for at least the remainder of that year. > > Having said that, I’ve always hated corridas and when my dad – big fan – had them on TV I was always secretly rooting for the bull. I’m all for doing away with them along with any number of “traditions” that still remain involving harming animals in different ways. And no, I won’t go into the details of what those are. Suffice it to say they are barbaric no matter how anyone attempts to justify them. I’m with you. I wish the bulls had a much higher success rate. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/54 "2009-07-13T23:20:49Z")
Heck, they should make the event even _more_ risky. Stuff one random bull full of explosives! I know some nanny-staters and thumb-suckers will call this abominable, but who cares? ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/55 "2009-07-13T23:44:44Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I can see a pretty big contrast between dog fighting, which requires torturing the dog over a long period of time to turn it vicious, and then entering it in fight after fight to maul and be mauled by other dogs, until it’s finally too crippled to be any good any more, and a bull fight, where the bull is raised the same as any other cattle, and then fights only once before it is killed and eaten. Granted, the arena is not as quick a death as the slaughterhouse, but I don’t know that it’s really all the much worse. In the final analysis, a bloodsport is a bloodsport and one nation’s hero is another’s felon. Your reference to the conditions suffered by cattle on some commercial farms implies a false dichotomy. That cattle raised on commercial farms suffer worse than fighting bulls is an indictment of commercial farming not a defense of a shameful tradition. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/56 "2009-07-14T00:37:12Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I suspect that if skiing is as dangerous as being charged by a bull in a narrow street, you’re doing it wrong. Tell that to [Sonny Bono](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_bono#Death) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/57 "2009-07-14T01:36:41Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > In the final analysis, a bloodsport is a bloodsport and one nation’s hero is another’s felon. Your reference to the conditions suffered by cattle on some commercial farms implies a false dichotomy. That cattle raised on commercial farms suffer worse than fighting bulls is an indictment of commercial farming not a defense of a shameful tradition. I’d say that, in the final analysis, a cow is a cow, and if someone wants to poke it with a sword a few times before they eat its flesh and wear its skin as a coat, that seems like pretty small beer, to me. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/58 "2009-07-14T02:14:41Z")
Have any of you actually seen a bull fight? It’s pretty cool. The flirtation with death is _right friggin’ there_. It’s like a NASCAR race, except…you know…interesting. The bull’s suffering is totally worth my entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/59 "2009-07-14T03:00:38Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heck, they should make the event even _more_ risky. Stuff one random bull full of explosives! I know some nanny-staters and thumb-suckers will call this abominable, but who cares? Prolly shouldn’t say this, but that’s fuckin’ hilarious. If it’s right by you I’ll even e-mail them the idea. Looking forward to this Hell thing. Place should be a riot. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/60 "2009-07-14T03:11:21Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heck, they should make the event even _more_ risky. Stuff one random bull full of explosives! I know some nanny-staters and thumb-suckers will call this abominable, but who cares? After it’s over, I think they’ll agree that it’s positively noble. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828.md?page=4)