# Dumbassery in Pamplona **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828 "2009-07-13T04:18:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/61 "2009-07-14T04:40:29Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > … a shameful tradition. I shall inform the rest of the world of your ruling at once. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/62 "2009-07-14T04:50:41Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’d say that, in the final analysis, a cow is a cow, and if someone wants to poke it with a sword a few times before they eat its flesh and wear its skin as a coat, that seems like pretty small beer, to me. I have to agree. At least in this case, the cows get a fighting chance. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/63 "2009-07-14T05:05:14Z")
> [@delphica](#): > > Oh, but I complain about that as well! It’s completely made-up, and THEN I found out that the climbers leave their empty oxygen tanks and whatever-else-the-fuck-all up on the mountain because they’re too weak to carry them back down. That was the point when I became totally frothing in my loathing of people who climb Everest. Agreed - IMHO mountain climbers are amazingly dumb and I can’t make myself feel much pity for them when they die engaging in an incredibly risky hobby. Jon Krakauer goes on an extended ramble about mountain climbing and the dumb stuff he did as a cocky kid at the end of _Into the Woods_, and I wanted to reach into the book and throttle him. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/64 "2009-07-14T05:06:42Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Fair enough, I didn’t know that. He said that it was a way to keep any of them from going after you, something about them thinking you were one of the herd. > > Either way it was still a cool photo. Oh I know it looks cool, but the basic rule is, “don’t touch the bulls.” If the bull notices he’s been touched by someone who is not another bull, he’s more likely to turn around than if he isn’t being touched. So for an extra thrill and dubious extra security, you get extra danger for yourself and others. In Pamplona parlance, it’s called “buscar la foto,” “trying to get into the reporters’ pictures.” The problem is that, same as many newbies say “I had no idea they were that big” or “oh my Gawd, those horns are sharp!”… way too many try to do things that only someone with lots of experience should (and even those are likely to get beat up for it) because “it looks pretty in pictures”. Even if you’re experienced, in good health and do the right thing, there’s a risk, as Jimeno’s death has shown. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heck, they should make the event even _more_ risky. Stuff one random bull full of explosives! I know some nanny-staters and thumb-suckers will call this abominable, but who cares? In Navarra, the Toro de Fuego is a guy carrying a bull’s-head shaped cover with fireworks on it. In other places it’s an actual bull with fireworks tied on him. Any brand of idiot a human can come up with, another one has already tried… ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/65 "2009-07-14T06:25:37Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I have to agree. > > At least in this case, the cows get a fighting chance. [nitpick]To my knowledge, no cows are involved. Only bulls.[/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/66 "2009-07-14T06:41:53Z")
(Ever see a Spanish fighting cow? Nasty, aggressive, horned beasts. They are used to train matadors and so they see the cape often enough that they know the trick.\* You need some serious balls to go up against a fighting cow.) \*“She knows math,” as they say in Spanish. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/67 "2009-07-14T06:46:11Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > In Navarra, the Toro de Fuego is a guy carrying a bull’s-head shaped cover with fireworks on it. In other places it’s an actual bull with fireworks tied on him. Any brand of idiot a human can come up with, another one has already tried… Yeah but at least some of those get a chance to jump in the ocean and put them out. **Bryan’s** method is way more bullproof – not to mention the size of the “fireworks.” Bet no one’s ever thought of throwing a goat of off a bell tower though. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/68 "2009-07-14T07:06:31Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > [nitpick]To my knowledge, no cows are involved. Only bulls.[/nitpick] I’m pretty sure that the term “cow” can be used to refer both to the male and the female of the species. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/69 "2009-07-14T08:44:25Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > [nitpick]To my knowledge, no cows are involved. Only bulls.[/nitpick] Cows are involved too. After the bulls are in their pens, individual cows and/or two-year-old bulls are let loose in the ring; also, in most of the villages near Pamplona where runs are held the animals that are run are cows. They don’t have the budget for an arena and bullfight: bulls are run if and only if they will be in a bullfight. Children’s runs are with yearlings. Yearlings are later sacrificed or castrated; the cows keep running through all the season. Bulls are selected for bullfights according to, among other things, looks, so you’ll never get one “cuernituerto,” that is, with a horn pointing in a different direction than the other one: this defect comes from having run against a fence or wall when the horns were still tiny and it is found in fighter cows. Many runners consider that the most dangerous animal to run with isn’t a Miura, it’s a cuernituerta that’s been doing the rounds all summer long. By August, the cows know perfectly well what the game is about… they don’t just know Math, they can derivate in Latin. The bullruns season in Navarra and surroundings starts for St Peter (June 29) in Castejón and lasts until right before Pilares in Zaragoza (October 12), which doesn’t involve bullruns but it’s close enough to get invaded by Navarrese trying to hold onto the last of the summer. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/70 "2009-07-14T15:32:46Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m pretty sure that the term “cow” can be used to refer both to the male and the female of the species. I see that you support the deterioration of specificity and meaning in language. I don’t. Cows are females. But I see from **Nava** that cows do make the run, so there it is. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/71 "2009-07-14T15:56:26Z")
So Pamplona is cruel to the bulls but it’s fine for the US beef industry to slaughter millions of cattle for burgers, etc, many of them no doubt eaten by some of the complaining posters here. From the point of view of the cattle humans have some fucked-up logic. Long may the bulls continue to run at Pamplona and long may it continue to get up the noses of busybody assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/72 "2009-07-14T16:00:18Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m pretty sure that the term “cow” can be used to refer both to the male and the female of the species. Only by children. A cow is, by definition, a female. There are lots of gender neutral words for domesticated oxen, anyway - bovine, cattle, etc. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/73 "2009-07-14T16:56:23Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > So Pamplona is cruel to the bulls but it’s fine for the US beef industry to slaughter millions of cattle for burgers, etc, many of them no doubt eaten by some of the complaining posters here. > > From the point of view of the cattle humans have some fucked-up logic. I’ve invited a number of cattle to join us in “The BBQ Pit” to voice their opinions, but so far none has returned my call. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/74 "2009-07-14T17:03:15Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > I see that you support the deterioration of specificity and meaning in language. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/75 "2009-07-14T17:34:58Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I shall inform the rest of the world of your ruling at once. No you won’t. But I’m glad you finally got a chance to work that clever little line in. And, I am sure you’ve never opined on any other person or culture’s behavior? [earlier yesterday] Paul’s Imaginary Friend: So, I was reading about female circumcision? Paul in Qatar: Why, I think it’s appalling. PIF: I shall inform the world of your ruling at once. PIQ: D’oh! [two hours later] PIF: Something has to give in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. PIQ: It’s time for a viable two state solution. PIF: I shall inform the world of your ruling at once. PIQ: Dangit! [two hours after that] PIF: Hey, check out those crotch-less jeans! PIQ: I think they look slutty on mom and other women her age. PIF: I shall inform the world of your ruling at once. PIQ: Nooooooo. That’s the last time that happens to me. Where can I find a person, a real person, offering an opinion? I know, a message board. Seriously, you’re being an intellectual weakling and a dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/76 "2009-07-14T17:36:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’d say that, in the final analysis, a cow is a cow, and if someone wants to poke it with a sword a few times before they eat its flesh and wear its skin as a coat, that seems like pretty small beer, to me. I shall inform the world of your ruling at once. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/77 "2009-07-14T17:39:52Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’ve invited a number of cattle to join us in “The BBQ Pit” to voice their opinions, but so far none has returned my call. Perhaps they weren’t in the right moo’d. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/78 "2009-07-14T17:42:34Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Perhaps they weren’t in the right moo’d. Puns? You’re really pasture time. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/79 "2009-07-14T17:48:21Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > I shall inform the world of your ruling at once. Did you confuse me with **Paul from Qatar**? ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/80 "2009-07-14T18:05:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Did you confuse me with **Paul from Qatar**? No. I just figured it was such a witty, one-size-fits all reply, why not try it out myself. It really wasn’t meant to be a jab at you. We just see things differently on this, you and me. So you don’t mind a little torture mixed in with your ground beef. Me, I’d prefer a humane killing. There’s nothing inherrently illogical about either position. Paul, on the other hand, conflates offering an opinion on a message board with an attempt at a royal proclamation - not really, but if he can makle it seem like I do, then he can “take me down a peg.” And peg taking is big among westerners stranded in viceless middle east. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828.md?page=5)