# Dumbassery in Pamplona **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828 "2009-07-13T04:18:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/81 "2009-07-14T18:12:21Z")
[MSNBC’s](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31764164/from/ET/?beginSlide=1&) got some pretty lively photos of this year’s event. Don’t click on the two blackened ones unless you want to see the fella that won’t be regaling spirited tales anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/82 "2009-07-14T19:02:15Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Oh I know it looks cool, but the basic rule is, “don’t touch the bulls.” If the bull notices he’s been touched by someone who is not another bull, he’s more likely to turn around than if he isn’t being touched. So for an extra thrill and dubious extra security, you get extra danger for yourself and others. > > In Pamplona parlance, it’s called “buscar la foto,” “trying to get into the reporters’ pictures.” The problem is that, same as many newbies say “I had no idea they were that big” or “oh my Gawd, those horns are sharp!”… way too many try to do things that only someone with lots of experience should (and even those are likely to get beat up for it) because “it looks pretty in pictures”. Even if you’re experienced, in good health and do the right thing, there’s a risk, as Jimeno’s death has shown. Thanks for the information, now I’ll be able to spot a new type of idiot in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/83 "2009-07-14T20:24:16Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Thanks for the information, now I’ll be able to spot a new type of idiot in the future. A bullhitter? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/84 "2009-07-14T20:46:17Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > I see that you support the deterioration of specificity and meaning in language. I don’t. > > Cows are females. But I see from **Nava** that cows do make the run, so there it is. Seeing as language is essentially my profession\*… hardly. I simply recall once reading that here on this board, although I’ve never used it myself before. IMHO, there should be a gender-neutral singular term for a single head of cattle. With most animals it’s generally the male of the species, but with livestock, it’s occasionally the female - take “sheep”, for example; you’d never say “a herd of sheep and rams.” Why not the same with cows? Anyway, I apologize for my mistake, as it seems to have caused some offense. As the saying goes, “To forgive is human, to moo, bovine.” - I translate. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/85 "2009-07-14T20:57:29Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > [MSNBC’s](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31764164/from/ET/?beginSlide=1&) got some pretty lively photos of this year’s event. Don’t click on the two blackened ones unless you want to see the fella that won’t be regaling spirited tales anymore. Amusing stuff (except for the asshole that got gored and crashed my mood). ---
**Author:** ![akira5822](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@akira5822](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akira5822)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/86 "2009-07-14T21:05:30Z")
This is more my idea of hanging out with bulls [http://www.lambocars.com/events/bulls.htm](http://www.lambocars.com/events/bulls.htm) ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/87 "2009-07-14T22:18:10Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > No. I just figured it was such a witty, one-size-fits all reply, why not try it out myself. It really wasn’t meant to be a jab at you. We just see things differently on this, you and me. So you don’t mind a little torture mixed in with your ground beef. Me, I’d prefer a humane killing. There’s nothing inherrently illogical about either position. Paul, on the other hand, conflates offering an opinion on a message board with an attempt at a royal proclamation - not really, but if he can makle it seem like I do, then he can “take me down a peg.” And peg taking is big among westerners stranded in viceless middle east. It didnt get to you at all, did it? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/88 "2009-07-14T22:20:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > IMHO, there should be a gender-neutral singular term for a single head of cattle. With most animals it’s generally the male of the species, but with livestock, it’s occasionally the female - take “sheep”, for example; you’d never say “a herd of sheep and rams.” Or chickens, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/89 "2009-07-14T22:23:54Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > It didnt get to you at all, did it? losing sleep over it ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/90 "2009-07-15T01:30:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Or chickens, for that matter. Male chicken=rooster (or cock). Female chicken=hen. Male sheep=ram. Female sheep=ewe. Is this really that hard? Farm animals, people. Didn’t you pass out of second grade? “Cow” is quite different: a cow is a female bovine, female whale, female moose, female elephant, or other large herd mammal female. A male is a “bull.” That is, unless you don’t mind letting sloppy usage erode meaning, or are using it as slang (but even as slang “cow” still usually refers to a female.) ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/91 "2009-07-15T02:30:37Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Tell me about it. Even our _legally married_ gay couples sport those puffy chests – and really hairy to boot. I didn’t visit Spain until I was in my 20s, but I had read most of the Asterix and Obelix collection while studying French in Alliance Française when I was a kid. I have never stopped thinking of Spaniards as one of the characters in Asterix in Spain. 🙂 Sorry about that. ¡Ole! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/92 "2009-07-15T02:35:24Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > I don’t accept the notion that running with the bulls is equivalent given the statistics of 15 deaths in 99 years of the event. What are the stats of injuries? If 15 got killed, hundreds must have been gored or trampled. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/93 "2009-07-15T03:13:50Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Male chicken=rooster (or cock). Female chicken=hen. > Male sheep=ram. Female sheep=ewe. > > Is this really that hard? Farm animals, people. Didn’t you pass out of second grade? Meh. I just eat 'em. I don’t sex 'em. > [@](#): > > That is, unless you don’t mind letting sloppy usage erode meaning, or are using it as slang I prefer to worry about things that actually exist. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/94 "2009-07-15T03:46:49Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Seriously, you’re being an intellectual weakling and a dumbass. You’re probably right. After all, knowing little of Iberian culture and the Festival of Bravery you judge it as “shameful.” Not knowing me, you judge me as a dumbass. An entire tradition practiced by millions over the centuries is ‘shameful.’ Millions of people who having more experience than you have come to the opposite conclusion from yours. I guess they are all wrong. Thank goodness you came along to tell them how to live their lives. Frankly, within limits, bullfighting and other cultural traditions are none of our business. If you do not support this art, do not attend or watch. There is no reason to slur and entire history. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/95 "2009-07-15T06:18:21Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Amusing stuff (except for the asshole that got gored and crashed my mood). That’s the most amusing of them all. ---
**Author:** ![Ferris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ferris/32/11573_2.png) [@Ferris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferris)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/96 "2009-07-15T07:17:46Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Seriously, dudes, can’t you think of a better way to display your maleness? How about streaking down the high street? Crushing beer cans on your forehead? Fart contest? 1. Right now it’s winter. 2. Only bottles in the fridge. 3. My wife would probably win. Combining all three with Running Of The Bulls would be technically feasible, much more interesting for the media, and demonstrate 75% maleness, minimum. And if the bulls were on snowmobiles, well… ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/97 "2009-07-15T08:04:50Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > I didn’t visit Spain until I was in my 20s, but I had read most of the Asterix and Obelix collection while studying French in Alliance Française when I was a kid. I have never stopped thinking of Spaniards as one of the characters in Asterix in Spain. So we’re likely to fry our enemies in olive oil? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/98 "2009-07-15T08:17:11Z")
Sorry, out of time. > [@gonzomax](#): > > What are the stats of injuries? If 15 got killed, hundreds must have been gored or trampled. Well, same as the first recorded death is from 1914, by which time the bulls had been run for over a thousand years (there’s medieval documents mentioning the practice), and that led to the runs being “officialized” (added to the programs of the week of celebrations, with the route marked and fenced, and cops ordered to keep people who seem out of shape away), there aren’t exact stats of how many people have been hurt. Also, the hurt involves not only by the bulls but also by falling down or by being taught the facts of life by other runners or by the herders: at least one of the wounded from this year was listed as “un varetazo,” “contussion from being hit by a herder’s staff” (the staff is a “vara”). But yes, it’s in the hundreds. There have been pileups which led to over one dozen people in the hospital; that’s with no bull involved, just people falling on top of each other and crushing the ones at the bottom. Safety is increased constantly: for example, the most dangerous point used to be the entrance to the actual arena, where pileups would take place. They opened slits at the bottom of the walls so people who fall down can roll out through the slits and there hasn’t been a pileup since. This year, the floor of the route has been painted with anti-sliding stuff and that has reduced falls in Mercaderes to almost zero (I think it’s been only one runner who fell there, instead of stuff like " all six bulls and two of the oxen"). The “infirmary” at the arena itself has been up to hospital surgery room standards since the 1950s: bullfighters have a saying that “if you’re going to get caught, best do it in Pamplona.” From what I’ve seen of street-based-bullfighting in other areas of Spain, it’s true; there’s areas where having a dozen dead from the local fiestas is considered “a bit too high.” ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/99 "2009-07-15T09:23:17Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > Puns? You’re really pasture time. I herd that one already. After a while it all just graze out. > [@Miller](#): > > Meh. I just eat 'em. I don’t sex 'em. Sez you. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2009, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828/100 "2009-07-15T11:12:20Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Seriously, dudes, can’t you think of a better way to display your maleness? How about streaking down the high street? Crushing beer cans on your forehead? Fart contest? Certainly…any number of primitive tribes with marginal IQs have spectacular rites which endanger their health…God Bless the ones that invented bungee using some crappy old vines and a seedily-built platform. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbassery-in-pamplona/502828.md?page=6)