# Dumbasses, tragedies don't "have to happen" mmmkay? (lame) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbasses-tragedies-dont-have-to-happen-mmmkay-lame/595519 "2011-09-07T17:44:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbasses-tragedies-dont-have-to-happen-mmmkay-lame/595519/41 "2011-09-25T20:15:07Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > In this instance it does. The speaker does not mean that she needed to die, regardless of your overly literal interpretation. It’s an idiomatic phrasing and like most idiomatic phrasings shouldn’t be parsed word for word like that. It’s not idiomatic, actually; it’s functional. We do this with language in many ways, and the OP just isn’t able to recognize that yet. For example, when an employee says to his boss, “I was wondering if I could have this Friday off,” the employee is showing deference to the boss by using the past tense. Literally, the employee is still wondering; however, he changes _I’m wondering_ to _I was wondering_ to show recognition of the boss’s authority. Using the periphrastic modal _had to_ is functional too, albeit in a different way. Nevertheless, the OP is insisting that all language use be purely representational (literal), when we know that that is not how language actually works. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbasses-tragedies-dont-have-to-happen-mmmkay-lame/595519/42 "2011-09-25T20:33:52Z")
> [@Snow\_Pea](#): > > Correct. He means it’s a shame that she died. But by inserting the completely unnecessary “had to”, changes the meaning to something he did not intend. So…stop doing it. :rolleyes: No, he doesn’t. He’s not using a standard grammatical device in an unusual or novel way, he is using a perfectly normal method of expressing himself. It is your interpretation that is the outlier and therefore, wrong. Thank you for the correction, guizot. I always enjoy reading your posts on linguistics. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbasses-tragedies-dont-have-to-happen-mmmkay-lame/595519/43 "2011-09-25T22:10:56Z")
From now on I’ll say “I’m sorry God hates you.” Perhaps followed by “Are you Jewish, perchance?” ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbasses-tragedies-dont-have-to-happen-mmmkay-lame/595519/44 "2011-09-26T08:37:17Z")
Linguistic pedantry is how some of us cope with tragedy. Sorry you had to find out this way. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbasses-tragedies-dont-have-to-happen-mmmkay-lame/595519/45 "2011-09-26T20:00:37Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > I tend to think of this usage in the same way I think that someone might say something like: > > “Dammit! It just _had_ to go and rain on my wedding day! > And I _had_ to get an offer of a free ride when I’d already handed over the cash. > And what’s more, I just had to go and ignore some free advice!” > > And, surprisingly enough, it makes sense. Really? Really, **PaulParkhead**? “It makes sense”? You couldn’t’a finished your post with “it figgers”? Are you just trying to screw with me? I mean, I’m just helpin’ you out. Helpin’ you…out… ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbasses-tragedies-dont-have-to-happen-mmmkay-lame/595519/46 "2011-09-26T20:07:51Z")
I don’t like “Everything happens for a reason”. No. It doesn’t. Horrible things happen to good people. Horrible things happen to bad people. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbasses-tragedies-dont-have-to-happen-mmmkay-lame/595519/47 "2011-09-26T20:22:01Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > :dubious: > > You guys are thinking too much. Accept the condolences in the spirit they’re intended and move on. I condole you. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbasses-tragedies-dont-have-to-happen-mmmkay-lame/595519/48 "2011-09-26T22:29:45Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Yeah, that doesn’t really make any sense. I mean, I understand what the intended meaning is, and I’m not intensely bothered by it, but I don’t see how “I’m sorry this _had to happen_” adds any meaning that “I’m sorry this _happened_” doesn’t already contain. . . When used as a condolence, it’s not only saying that the death is a sad thing, it’s also saying that everyone knows that they did everything that they could have to prevent it, but preventing it just wasn’t possible. It also implies that this bad thing is exceptionally bad because of when or to whom it happened. The second and third parts are what the “had to” adds. > [@](#): > > Of all the gin joints in all the world, she had to walk into mine. -Humphrey Bogart, > Casablanca. When not part of a condolence, there’s a Murphy’s Law flavor to the phrase. > [@PaulParkhead](#): > > I tend to think of this usage in the same way I think that someone might say something like: > > “Dammit! It just _had_ to go and rain on my wedding day! > And I _had_ to get an offer of a free ride when I’d already handed over the cash. > And what’s more, I just had to go and ignore some free advice!” > > And, surprisingly enough, it makes sense. Yup. At least with the first two sentences, you didn’t do anything to cause the action, you couldn’t have controlled or prevented the actions, and they are particularly unwelcome because of their timing and the fact that they happened to you and not someone else. I think it applies to the third sentence, too, if we presume that most free advice is bunk that should be ignored. > [@Snow\_Pea](#): > > . . . \*"Yes, it’s a shame a seeming fine, young woman **had to** perish in a manner other than that of old age! \* > > No, she did not “have to” perish. :rolleyes: Well, once the bullet went through her brain, she sort of did. But that’s not what the phrase is saying. This phrase is saying that those who survive her may be feeling that they should have prevented it somehow, but that there was nothing that they could do. They should not burden themselves with guilt on top of sorrow. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbasses-tragedies-dont-have-to-happen-mmmkay-lame/595519/49 "2011-09-26T22:59:52Z")
> [@Snow\_Pea](#): > > Sorry, but “had to” does not mean “did”. “Had to” means “had to”, as in “needed to”. With due respect, words do not just mean what you personally want them to mean. English is a fairly complicated language in which words and phrases can mean more than one thing depending on context. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbasses-tragedies-dont-have-to-happen-mmmkay-lame/595519/50 "2011-09-26T23:07:57Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I don’t like “Everything happens for a reason”. No. It doesn’t. Horrible things happen to good people. Horrible things happen to bad people. Everything does happen for a reason. It’s just not always a good reason. Or it’s a reason unconnected to the person it happened to. As someone wiser than me once said, “Life is not unfair. Life is random and arbitrary. **People** are unfair.” ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbasses-tragedies-dont-have-to-happen-mmmkay-lame/595519/51 "2011-09-27T19:25:57Z")
Anyone still unconvinced could set up a poll asking if these two sentences contain the exact same information. “It rained today.” “It had to rain today.” Native English speakers will recognize that the second sentence is stating that the speaker was royally screwed by the rain. Just as they would recognize that the word ‘even’ in the sentence “Even Rodney passed the test” is stating that the test was very easy and that Rodney is dumb, although that is not the primary usage of the word even. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbasses-tragedies-dont-have-to-happen-mmmkay-lame/595519.md?page=2)