# Dumbest religious persecution ever **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 6, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713 "2005-05-06T16:19:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/101 "2005-05-08T01:47:48Z")
All y’all who keep saying the church did this… As far as I can tell it wasn’t the church…it was the pastor. On his own. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/102 "2005-05-08T01:55:30Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > As far as I can tell it wasn’t the church…it was the pastor. On his own. > [@](#): > > Some members of East Waynesville Baptist Church voted the nine members out at a recent scheduled deacon meeting, which turned into an impromptu business meeting, according to congregants. [Church members say they were kicked out for being Democrats](http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050506/NEWS/50506020/1001) ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/103 "2005-05-08T02:01:33Z")
So the pastor and some members represent the whole church? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/104 "2005-05-08T02:28:51Z")
[Today’s update:](http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20050507%2FNEWS01%2F50506036%2F1001) > [@](#): > > About 20 members of the 400-member East Waynesville Baptist Church voted the nine members out at a recent deacon meeting, which turned into an impromptu business meeting, according to congregants. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/105 "2005-05-08T02:40:36Z")
There’s a little more to it than we’ve been talking about. > [@](#): > > All nine walked out after Pastor Chan Chandler told them he expected them to sign forms supporting his political and moral beliefs. After they left, members who remained voted to boot the dissenters. Sign forms? WTF? Apparently church members have been voicing opposition to politicking from the pulpit, but the Pastor has ignored their objections. IMO, this guy beats my Mom’s homemade fruitcake hands down. [Linky.](http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/2381962p-8759950c.html#1) ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/106 "2005-05-08T07:04:00Z")
I’d just like to shout out a little love for the 40 good souls who left in protest. I have a feeling that more good souls will follow. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/107 "2005-05-08T16:03:14Z")
From the article quoted by **danceswithcats** : > [@](#): > > In October, just before the presidential election, Chandler said anyone who planned to vote for Democratic candidate John Kerry should leave the church, two members told The News & Observer. Well, that would remove any lingering doubt about whether or not Pastor Chandler was violating IRS regulations for a tax-exempt organization, now wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/108 "2005-05-08T16:03:34Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Are you sure you’re not thinking of Jimmy Swaggert? I can’t recall Falwell, odious as he is, talking about killing gays. Swaggert, on the other hand, famously said that if a man ever hit on him, he’d kill him and “tell God he died.” Correct it was Swaggert. Thanks. Falwell made the statement that he thought Bush should pursue all terrorists and blow them all away in the name of the Lord. Just as offensive. It’s sad that so many can hear that kind of junk and still consider them Christian at all. {sorry Lord, I’ll work on that judgement thing, but they really tic me off} ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/109 "2005-05-08T16:15:02Z")
It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. According to **danceswithcats** ’s linky, about half the congregation walked out. With all the national publicity making them look like idiots, I bet more are thinking about it. I think ol’ Chan’s gonna get the boot. If not, the walkouts can always form the\* Church of Jesus Christ, Democrat\*. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/110 "2005-05-08T16:25:19Z")
[Pastor Chan Chandler plays cagey on Saturday](http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050508/NEWS01/50507013/1001) > [@](#): > > “On the advice of counsel, I’ve been advised not to have any comment at this time,” Chandler told The Associated Press. “We will have a statement later.” On Sunday [Pastor Says Ouster a Misunderstanding](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=6&u=/ap/20050508/ap_on_re_us/church_politics) > [@](#): > > Chandler said before Sunday’s service that he wouldn’t preach about the controversy, but he called it “a great misunderstanding.” Hypothetical basis for the misunderstanding: “Democrats??? I thought they said they were **Demon** crats!!!” :wally ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/111 "2005-05-08T20:06:51Z")
Anyone seen this on the National or cable news yet? I’m curious how they will deal with it. Hannity, ORielly, and others. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/112 "2005-05-08T20:25:37Z")
First he bullys, now the guy is trying to backpeddle. > [@](#): > > Added Lewis Inman, a deacon at the church who said he was voted out Monday: “He could have apologized and made everything right. He’s not man enough.” I’d had a lot of respect for him if he’d seen the error of his ways and apologized. I’d at least had _some_ respect for him if he’d of stuck to his guns. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/113 "2005-05-08T22:08:07Z")
Ha. “[_Chandler_](http://65.66.134.201/cgi-bin/webster/webster.exe?search_for_texts_web1828=chandler),” eh? I know exactly which bible verse the _new_ pastor should put up on the marquee board first: > [@](#): > > Yea, the light of the wicked shall be put out, and the spark of his fire shall not shine. > > The light shall be dark in his tabernacle, and his candle shall be put out with him. > > The steps of his strength shall be straitened, and his own counsel shall cast him down. _–Job 18:5-7_ ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2005, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/114 "2005-05-09T00:38:29Z")
[Duck and Cover:](http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050508/NEWS01/50508005/1001) > [@](#): > > In a written statement released by Chandler’s lawyer, John J. Pavey Jr., the pastor stated, “This church fellowships openly with all who embrace the authority and application of the Bible regardless of political affiliation, including current members who align themselves with both major political parties, as well as those who affiliate with no political party.” > The statement goes on to claim that no one has been voted from the membership of the church because of political beliefs. > “No one has been voted out of this church for politics or any other reason at this point,” Pavey said, in contradiction to the nine members’ belief they have been removed from the church rolls. This’d be a good time to impound the church’s computer and get an unexpurgated copy of the minutes. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2005, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/115 "2005-05-09T01:38:58Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > First he bullys, now the guy is trying to backpeddle. > > I’d had a lot of respect for him if he’d seen the error of his ways and apologized. I’d at least had _some_ respect for him if he’d of stuck to his guns. I’m with you completely. With most assholes, at least they get a grudging nod for sticking to their guns. It’s called having the courage of your convictions. Apparently this guy doesn’t have any “true grit” at all. Let’s kick back and watch him squirm now 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2005, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/116 "2005-05-09T02:04:40Z")
> [@](#): > > In a written statement released by Chandler’s lawyer, John J. Pavey Jr., the pastor stated, “This church fellowships openly with all who embrace the authority and application of the Bible regardless of political affiliation, including current members who align themselves with both major political parties, as well as those who affiliate with no political party.” > The statement goes on to claim that no one has been voted from the membership of the church because of political beliefs. Dear Pastor; Bid a fond adieu to your credibility and much of the respect people might have had for you. I can only pray that you repent and learn something from this experience. We all make mistakes. ``` your fellow flawed human CosmosDan ``` ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2005, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/117 "2005-05-09T11:19:15Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > It doesn’t override the Esablishment Clause because it doesn’t amount to the state endorsing a religious view, nor does it prevent any church from advocating one, or even from advocating politically. It just removes their tax exemption (which is not a constitutional right) if they do so. But aren’t tax exemptions definitively state endorsements of one entity over another? Aren’t they even used to incentivize decisions and behavior? Doesn’t a tax-free church have an inherent success advantage over a tax-paying church? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/118 "2005-05-09T13:24:08Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > You’re the one who doesn’t have a fucking clue what religion is actually about. Religion is about people’s relationship to God. Religion is about “Love thy neighbor as thyself.” Religion is about comforting the bereved, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and doing good works. Religion is about giving meaning to a meaningless world. Stupid me. And here I though religion was about money and power. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/119 "2005-05-09T14:05:21Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > But aren’t tax exemptions definitively state endorsements of one entity over another? Aren’t they even used to incentivize decisions and behavior? Doesn’t a tax-free church have an inherent success advantage over a tax-paying church? My very limited understanding is that churches receive tax-exempt status in order to assist them in performing good deeds, similar to a 501(c)(3)'s status. Personally, I think churches ought to be treated like any other nonprofit and be subjected to the same rules. There might be a few exceptions (I’m okay with allowing religious nonprofits to hire a leader based on religion, for example–no reason why Sisters of Mercy Hospital can’t specifically hire a Dominican nun), but overall I think they should confirm to the same rules as other nonprofits. That way, there’s no government recognition of religion that can get in the way. Religious groups get the same set of rules as nonreligious groups to play by. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713/120 "2005-05-09T14:34:49Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > But aren’t tax exemptions definitively state endorsements of one entity over another? Aren’t they even used to incentivize decisions and behavior? Doesn’t a tax-free church have an inherent success advantage over a tax-paying church? But the state doesn’t grant exemptions based on religious content. It’s pretty much granted automatically for all churches (it’s not something they have to apply for) and the status is only taken away if church income, property or resources is not used for religious or charitable purposes. So there is no competition between taxed or untaxed churches because _all_ churches are untaxed unless they try to convert their resources to non-religious purposes. Even if they do convert those resources to political purposes (or to real estate speculation) the state will not abridge their speech or religious practice but only remove a tax exemption on the grounds that they are no longer a purely religious organization. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumbest-religious-persecution-ever/302713.md?page=7)