# Dumping asylum seekers: What's the admin's justification? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 31, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006 "2018-12-31T22:03:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/1 "2018-12-31T22:03:08Z")
Honest question. If the President sees migrants as such an imminent and dangerous threat to our safety, why are they bussed to city parks and bus stations with no notice to the cities and aid organizations? Isn’t that just asking them to disappear? How much more “open” can the borders be? Apologies for the clear POV on this issue, but I haven’t seen anything from officials addressing the action at all. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/2 "2018-12-31T22:25:31Z")
> [@HelenGawn](#): > > Honest question. If the President sees migrants as such an imminent and dangerous threat to our safety, why are they bussed to city parks and bus stations with no notice to the cities and aid organizations? Isn’t that just asking them to disappear? How much more “open” can the borders be? > > Apologies for the clear POV on this issue, but I haven’t seen anything from officials addressing the action at all. Just as a point of clarification, I disagree with ‘the admin’s’ position on this, however, the President et al doesn’t see ‘migrants’ as a threat, they see illegal immigrants as a threat…those are two totally different things. Personally, I think we need to fix our immigration policies, but you are mischaracterizing the other side. We had must about as many LEGAL immigrants as ever this past year (I think it was down a bit, probably because of Trump but not directly…folks probably wary of coming to the US with an idiot like him in charge. We still had well over a million legal immigrants in 2018). As far as your question goes, I’d need some context. Do you have a link or cite describing what you are getting at? You seem to be saying that Trump et al are having ICE(?) pick up illegals then dump them…somewhere? I haven’t heard of this happening. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/3 "2018-12-31T22:46:47Z")
His only interest in the matter is in punishing brown people; that’s the only justification he needs. There’s no real danger to the US, and neither he nor his subordinates actually care if they are refugees, immigrants, or citizens of the US; just their skin color. Also, refugees aren’t migrants. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/4 "2018-12-31T23:17:43Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Just as a point of clarification, I disagree with ‘the admin’s’ position on this, however, the President et al doesn’t see ‘migrants’ as a threat, they see illegal immigrants as a threat…those are two totally different things. Personally, I think we need to fix our immigration policies, but you are mischaracterizing the other side. We had must about as many LEGAL immigrants as ever this past year (I think it was down a bit, probably because of Trump but not directly…folks probably wary of coming to the US with an idiot like him in charge. We still had well over a million legal immigrants in 2018). > > As far as your question goes, I’d need some context. Do you have a link or cite describing what you are getting at? You seem to be saying that Trump et al are having ICE(?) pick up illegals then dump them…somewhere? I haven’t heard of this happening. [Here ya go. Notice the timing: Christmas Eve.](https://www.texastribune.org/2018/12/24/ice-migrants-release-christmas-eve-el-paso/) The story mostly quotes Beto O’Rourke as the source. I acknowledge his political slant, but the Texas Tribune is a reputable source. > [@](#): > > ICE didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment Monday and it’s **unclear what role the shutdown played in the situation.** (Bolding mine) It looks like this is a likely motivation but still doesn’t provide any pretense of consistency. (I figured this thread would probably wind up in GD, but I didn’t think I’d be nudging it that way. Do what seems best, my mod friends.) ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/5 "2018-12-31T23:30:49Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Just as a point of clarification, I disagree with ‘the admin’s’ position on this, however, the President et al doesn’t see ‘migrants’ as a threat, they see illegal immigrants as a threat…those are two totally different things. Personally, I think we need to fix our immigration policies, but you are mischaracterizing the other side… [I disagree.](https://www.vox.com/2018/9/24/17892350/public-charge-immigration-food-stamps-medicaid-trump-comments)This is one of many stories contradicting your characterization, the most egregious being the infamous “shithole countries” comment. (OK. Self-reporting for forum change.) ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/6 "2019-01-01T00:58:58Z")
**Moderator Action** > [@HelenGawn](#): > > (I figured this thread would probably wind up in GD, but I didn’t think I’d be nudging it that way. Do what seems best, my mod friends.) That’s a bit heavy for a “nudge”. More like a shove, I think. 😉 Off to GD (from IMHO). ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/7 "2019-01-01T01:26:37Z")
> [@HelenGawn](#): > > [Here ya go. Notice the timing: Christmas Eve.](https://www.texastribune.org/2018/12/24/ice-migrants-release-christmas-eve-el-paso/) The story mostly quotes Beto O’Rourke as the source. I acknowledge his political slant, but the Texas Tribune is a reputable source. > (Bolding mine) It looks like this is a likely motivation but still doesn’t provide any pretense of consistency. > > (I figured this thread would probably wind up in GD, but I didn’t think I’d be nudging it that way. Do what seems best, my mod friends.) Sounds like a fuckup somewhere coupled with the shutdown and probably a bunch of government workers who didn’t know what to do and basically wanted to go home for Christmas and decided to dump the problem on someone else (sort of like the MIB thing with the cat…oh, the cat is a problem. What’s the problem? It’s your problem…). I seriously doubt this is some devious 3-D chess move by the government or Trump et al, just another example that the monkey in chief at the controls is just smashing buttons and throwing poo all over. And this doesn’t have anything to do with legal immigration btw. I did read your other link, but that doesn’t demonstrate that legal immigration is a threat to the public or whatever, just more wrong headed stupidity of the Trump administration. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/8 "2019-01-01T02:17:11Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Just as a point of clarification, I disagree with ‘the admin’s’ position on this, however, the President et al doesn’t see ‘migrants’ as a threat, they see illegal immigrants as a threat…those are two totally different things. :dubious: > **[In context: Trump's racial comments about federal judge](https://www.politifact.com/article/2016/jun/08/donald-trumps-racial-comments-about-judge-trump-un/)** > > Condemnation of comments made by Donald Trump about a federal judge reached the heights of the national Republican leade > [@](#): > > Trump has been roundly denounced, by the left and right, for saying U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel may be biased against him because of his Mexican heritage. > > The judge is presiding over a pair of cases in which the plaintiffs allege Trump University duped them into paying tens of thousands of dollars on the belief they would be trained to learn Trump’s real estate strategies. Trump denies the allegations, saying the students got their money’s worth, with many offering positive evaluations of the program. > **[Perspective | Now the Trump administration is trying to punish legal...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2018/08/09/now-the-trump-administration-is-trying-to-punish-legal-immigrants-for-being-poor/?utm_term=.ace7d90a2c66)** > > A harsh new proposal threatens to upend 400 years of immigration policy. > [@](#): > > Recent reporting indicates that the Department of Homeland Security is planning to significantly limit legal immigration and naturalization by changing the rules on immigration and welfare that have been central to the immigration system for more than 400 years. DHS wants to change the definition of what constitutes a public charge — someone dependent on the state — to deny green cards to legal migrants who are low-wage workers by considering their use, or likely use, of almost any government benefit as criteria for determining who may enter or remain in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/9 "2019-01-01T03:28:29Z")
It is helpful to understand how an asylum application is supposed to work when looking at the situation where persons were dropped off at bus stations in Texas. A person presenting himself/herself at a Port of Entry or to an Immigration Officer anywhere in the United States and making a claim of asylum is supposed to be detained pending [a credible fear of persecution or torture interview](https://www.uscis.gov/faq-page/credible-fear-faq) (often called simply a credible fear interview). Credible Fear has a particular meaning in law and refers to a fear of persecution on the basis of “race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.” Some commons reasons for migrants to seek to come to the United States likely do not qualify under the credible fear standard. Hoping for a better life for one’s children, fleeing domestic violence, or fear of a high general crime rate in the home country are examples of serious issues that still may not fall under the credible fear standard. The credible fear interview is to determine if the claim of asylum \*might \*be justified if what the claimant says can be supported. It IS NOT the final determination of whether a grant of asylum will be made. If a person/family passes a credible fear interview they are released into the United States. As they are no longer in custody of the government they may go wherever they wish given their (often quite limited) financial resources. They are instructed on how to follow up with Immigration for a final hearing on their asylum claim at a hearing, often a couple years or more in the future. A person who fails to make an asylum claim that could be upheld at a hearing is subject to being detained pending deportation to his/her home country. In the present time many, many asylum claimants are coming to the border with children. There is a policy in place due to an old legal settlement that limits how long children can be detained during such immigration processing. The [Flores Settlement](https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/10/politics/flores-settlement-history/index.html) limits detention of children to no more than 20 days. The Flores Settlement agreement came about in the 1993 case of [Flores v. Reno](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reno_v._Flores), at a time when processing a credible fear interview seemed feasible in no more than 20 days. Though the legal case revolved around unaccompanied minor children in immigration detention, the Flores Settlement consent decree covered all minor children in immigration detention including those accompanied by a parent or relative. In the present day there have been more asylum claims made than there is capacity (or willingness of the present administration?) to conduct credible fear interviews. So Immigration and Customs Enforcement has been releasing any children (and their accompanying parent/guardian) who have not had a credible fear interview within 20 days. These people who are timing out are then released in much the same fashion as those who passed a credible fear interview. TL;DR The government is releasing these people because they have been held too long and must be released to comply with a settlement agreement in an old court case. As to why they are released without notifying social services agencies and charities…? Laziness or spite would be my guess. ICE officials are not required to make such notifications. So why bother? lazy. And El Paso used to be somewhat of a Sanctuary City until a recent statewide law in Texas intervened. Dropping bus loads of people off with no notice might be a subtle way of ICE officers making things difficult for a city that provided limited cooperation with them in the past. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/10 "2019-01-01T16:55:57Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Credible Fear has a particular meaning in law and refers to a fear of persecution on the basis of “race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.” Some commons reasons for migrants to seek to come to the United States likely do not qualify under the credible fear standard. Hoping for a better life for one’s children, fleeing domestic violence, or fear of a high general crime rate in the home country are examples of serious issues that still may not fall under the credible fear standard. > > The credible fear interview is to determine if the claim of asylum \*might \*be justified if what the claimant says can be supported. It IS NOT the final determination of whether a grant of asylum will be made. > > If a person/family passes a credible fear interview they are released into the United States. As they are no longer in custody of the government they may go wherever they wish given their (often quite limited) financial resources. They are instructed on how to follow up with Immigration for a final hearing on their asylum claim at a hearing, often a couple years or more in the future. That seems like an incredible loophole for someone attempting to illegally come to the United States. Just follow the script to pass the interview, be released into the U.S. and never show up at the hearing. Why try to scale a wall or fence or trek through the desert? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/11 "2019-01-01T20:01:48Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > That seems like an incredible loophole for someone attempting to illegally come to the United States. Just follow the script to pass the interview, be released into the U.S. and never show up at the hearing. Why try to scale a wall or fence or trek through the desert? Hard to wait when they do have small kids, while Mexico’s authorities are helping, the sad reality is that most do risk their few belongings or their own lives by waiting in very unsafe places. As for not showing up at hearings: > **[Majority of undocumented immigrants show up for court](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/jun/26/wolf-blitzer/majority-undocumented-immigrants-show-court-data-s/)** > > Defenders of President Donald Trump’s aggressive approach to illegal U.S.-Mexico border crossings say the country faces > [@](#): > > Majority of undocumented immigrants show up for court, data shows > [@](#): > > “Initially, a lot of migration was single males from Mexico coming for work,” said Joshua Breisblatt, a senior policy analyst at the American Immigration Council. “Now you’re seeing a shift to Central American families fleeing record levels of violence in the Northern Triangle.” > > So what do the court attendance rates of asylees look like? While the data is scarce, they show higher rates, compared to when all migrants are tallied together. > > One source of data comes from an Obama-era program that released asylees from detention and matched them with case managers who encouraged compliance with court-ordered obligations. As of April, the Family Case Management Program, or FCMP, had 630 enrolled families. > > Before the Trump administration ended the program in June, participants had a 100 percent attendance record at court hearings. They also had a 99 percent rate of check-ins and appointments with Immigration and Customs Enforcement, according to a Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General report. > > “According to ICE, overall program compliance for all five regions is an average of 99 percent for ICE check-ins and appointments, as well as 100 percent attendance at court hearings,” the report said. “Since the inception of FCMP, 23 out of 954 participants (2 percent) were reported as absconders.” > > In 2015, the immigration advocacy group American Immigration Council published a report that looked at studies from over the previous two decades that examined how well asylum seekers fulfilled their legal obligations. It found studies showed “very high rates of compliance with proceedings by asylum seekers who were placed into alternatives to detention.” ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/12 "2019-01-01T20:15:28Z")
It’s not laziness, it’s hate. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/13 "2019-01-01T20:38:46Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > That seems like an incredible loophole for someone attempting to illegally come to the United States. Just follow the script to pass the interview, be released into the U.S. and never show up at the hearing. Why try to scale a wall or fence or trek through the desert? You truly don’t understand why asylees come to the U.S., do you? I mean, you literally – and I mean that literally – don’t understand the first thing. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/14 "2019-01-01T20:49:22Z")
> [@HelenGawn](#): > > Dumping asylum seekers: What’s the admin’s justification? [The simple, correct answer](http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/judge2018/denialrates.html) is that the vast majority are historically denied. Along with that, lately there seems to be some rumor floating around our execrable southern neighbors to the effect that all you have do is show up and claim asylum - done deal. How’s that working out? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/15 "2019-01-01T20:59:32Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > [The simple, correct answer](http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/judge2018/denialrates.html) **is that the vast majority are historically denied.** Along with that, lately there seems to be some rumor floating around our execrable southern neighbors to the effect that all you have do is show up and claim asylum - done deal. > > How’s that working out? :dubious: I see denial rates from 5% to 99%+. What’s the overall rate across all judges? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/16 "2019-01-01T21:05:27Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > [The simple, correct answer](http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/judge2018/denialrates.html) is that the vast majority are historically denied. …asylum seekers are dumped at bus stations because they are “historically denied?” You know that doesn’t make any logical sense right? > [@](#): > > Along with that, lately there seems to be some rumor floating around our \*\*execrable \*\*southern neighbors to the effect that all you have do is show up and claim asylum - done deal. Classy. > [@](#): > > How’s that working out? :dubious: How’s what working out? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/17 "2019-01-01T21:09:45Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > [The simple, correct answer](http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/judge2018/denialrates.html) is that the vast majority are historically denied. Along with that, lately there seems to be some rumor floating around our execrable southern neighbors to the effect that all you have do is show up and claim asylum - done deal. > > How’s that working out? :dubious: [You are not even wrong](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong), when the subject is about dumping them, not what happens in their hearings. Read the OP and post #11 and try again. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/18 "2019-01-01T21:11:26Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Classy. Classier than “shithole.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/19 "2019-01-01T21:43:45Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Classier than “shithole.” 🙂 No, it’s really not. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/20 "2019-01-01T21:54:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You truly don’t understand why asylees come to the U.S., do you? > > I mean, you literally – and I mean that literally – don’t understand the first thing. I made no such generalization. Please read for comprehension. I said it presents a loophole for those, who are not true asylum seekers, to read from a script and pretend to be asylum seekers. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006.md?page=2)