# Dumping asylum seekers: What's the admin's justification? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 31, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006 "2018-12-31T22:03:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/21 "2019-01-01T22:35:32Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > :dubious: > > [PolitiFact | Donald Trump's racial comments about Hispanic judge in Trump University case](https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2016/jun/08/donald-trumps-racial-comments-about-judge-trump-un/) > > Trump has been roundly denounced, by the left and right, for saying U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel may be biased against him because of his Mexican heritage. > > The judge is presiding over a pair of cases in which the plaintiffs allege Trump University duped them into paying tens of thousands of dollars on the belief they would be trained to learn Trump’s real estate strategies. Trump denies the allegations, saying the students got their money’s worth, with many offering positive evaluations of the program. I’m not defending Trump in saying this, but I’d like to point out that I find it fascinating that some people will argue systemic racism is a problem because white judges are biased against minorities, but would gladly call out Trump for echoing the same concept. Again though, an accusation like that needs evidence of racial bias, which Trump didn’t have. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/22 "2019-01-01T22:42:47Z")
> [@andros](#): > > No, it’s really not. …indeed. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/23 "2019-01-01T22:49:39Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > I’m not defending Trump in saying this, but I’d like to point out that I find it fascinating that some people will argue systemic racism is a problem because white judges are biased against minorities, but would gladly call out Trump for echoing the same concept. > > Again though, an accusation like that needs evidence of racial bias, which Trump didn’t have. That is absolutely no where near the same concept. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/24 "2019-01-01T23:07:30Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > His only interest in the matter is in punishing brown people; that’s the only justification he needs. There’s no real danger to the US, and neither he nor his subordinates actually care if they are refugees, immigrants, or citizens of the US; just their skin color… I wish they were even pretending any more that this wasn’t the real reason. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/25 "2019-01-02T02:23:43Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I made no such generalization. Please read for comprehension. I said it presents a loophole for those, who are not true asylum seekers, to read from a script and pretend to be asylum seekers. And yet, something like 90 percent of those making an asylum claim show up for court. There was one monitoring program that had 99% of its participants show up to court dates for asylum hearings. And the Trump Administration ended it. So I ask you, what is the opposite of a loophole? ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/26 "2019-01-02T03:19:35Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It’s not laziness, it’s hate. I would not presume hate where mere indifference would suffice. It was not Trump personally deciding to drop these people at the bus station in Texas, it was local immigration officers. Case loads along the border have gone up substantially, particularly family groups being detained. This [Washington Post report notes](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/border-asylum-claims/?utm_term=.6a698bd3da98): > [@Washington Post report](#): > > Trump this spring deployed a nuclear option — separating parents from their children — in an attempt to stop families from coming. It backfired. The controversy generated by the policy and its abrupt rollback six weeks later handed smuggling guides across Central America a potent sales pitch. They now tell potential customers the Americans do not jail parents who bring children — and to hurry up before they might start doing so again. > > Families asking for mercy constitute a greater-than-ever portion of those taken into custody. More than half of all arrests along the Mexican border last month [Sept 2018] were migrant family members or unaccompanied minors, up from 13 percent in 2013. And there is coaching according to the same WaPo report: > [@](#): > > The smuggling guides who charge $10,000 or more for the trip provide transportation and meals, but also coaching, including the key words migrants should say to convince U.S. asylum officers that their fears meet credibility standards. I’m empathetic to the plight of the poor in Latin America. Mrs Iggy comes from such a background. But the asylum and refugee process is not intended to provide relief to economic migrants. Abusing that system may make it harder for persons with genuine Credible Fear claims to be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/27 "2019-01-02T05:30:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I see denial rates from 5% to 99%+. What’s the overall rate across all judges? [From the same source -](http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/539/) Syracuse University keeps a ton of immigration stats. I don’t know that I’d call 65% an “overwhelming majority,” though. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/28 "2019-01-02T13:19:53Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > And yet, something like 90 percent of those making an asylum claim show up for court. There was one monitoring program that had 99% of its participants show up to court dates for asylum hearings. And the Trump Administration ended it. > > So I ask you, what is the opposite of a loophole? If it has to do with Trump, guns, or immigration, you guys just cannot be logical like you are with most other topics. Forget that this is immigration; say it is admission to a college. If it was difficult to get into a particular college the direct way, but I pointed out that if you really wanted in all you had to do was tell a particular story and you would get in even if the story wasn’t true, you would call that a loophole would you not? Of course you would. Everyone would. Because that’s what it is. Even if the amnesty program is used legitimately by 90%, you have allowed 10% to enter the country illegally and disappear. That is a loophole. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/29 "2019-01-02T13:42:57Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > If it has to do with Trump, guns, or immigration, you guys just cannot be logical like you are with most other topics. Forget that this is immigration; say it is admission to a college. > > If it was difficult to get into a particular college the direct way, but I pointed out that if you really wanted in all you had to do was tell a particular story and you would get in even if the story wasn’t true, you would call that a loophole would you not? > > Of course you would. Everyone would. Because that’s what it is. > > Even if the amnesty program is used legitimately by 90%, you have allowed 10% to enter the country illegally and disappear. That is a loophole. Yet if we listened to Trump, 100% are entering the country and disappearing. And let’s get real: this whole issue isn’t about improving the system for seeking asylum. It’s about making a scapegoat of people who look differently than the average Republican voter, and an awful lot of people looooove to find scapegoats. That much has been shown throughout history. Not to mention that your version of “getting into college” involves 90% of those temporarily admitted to such college being kicked out after a year or so. Again, probably pretty familiar ground for the typical Trump voter. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/30 "2019-01-03T01:20:37Z")
From \*\*Iggy’s \*\*link above: (#26) > [@](#): > > As [Border Patrol agent Robert] Rodriguez radioed another agent to pick up the woman and the boy, she handed him her Honduran identification card. Cecilia Ulloa was 25. Darwin, her son, was 13. The math took a moment to sink in, and Ulloa appeared to recognize a familiar look of confusion. > > “My stepfather,” she said. “It started when I was 10.” Not necessarily germane to the subject, but then again maybe so. I apologize for my apparent “dump and run” of this thread. Y’all are just too smart; by the time I think of a reply to one post, someone has already said it better, and someone _else_ has given me more to chew on. I very much appreciate the information and thoughtful arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/31 "2019-01-03T19:25:19Z")
I should note that there may be a quite pragmatic reason for “dumping”- lack of detention space. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/32 "2019-01-03T20:49:01Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > [From the same source -](http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/539/) Syracuse University keeps a ton of immigration stats. I don’t know that I’d call 65% an “overwhelming majority,” though. To expand on this post: Note the link to Sessions and Trump greatly restricting who they will accept. Note that LGBTQ fobia and anti-women sentiment by the administration lead to a huge increase in denials. > [@](#): > > “Generally, claims by aliens pertaining to domestic violence or gang violence perpetrated by non-governmental actors will not qualify for asylum. > … > The mere fact that a country may have problems effectively policing certain crimes — such as domestic violence or gang violence — or that certain populations are more likely to be victims of crime, cannot itself establish an asylum claim.” Also note that the compliance rate and court attendance is excellent for applicants, showing that the concentration camps were unnecessary too. Dumping them is mostly to avoid giving these individuals access to due process in order to appease xenophobia within a particular voting block and is not about safety, the rule of law or justice. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/33 "2019-01-03T21:03:53Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > I’m empathetic to the plight of the poor in Latin America. Mrs Iggy comes from such a background. But the asylum and refugee process is not intended to provide relief to economic migrants. Abusing that system may make it harder for persons with genuine Credible Fear claims to be taken seriously. There’s a big difference between “someone whose fear isn’t one included in the US’s specific laundry list” and “someone whose only reason to move is economic”. I’m not even getting into why it’s so completely absurd to be against economic migration. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/34 "2019-01-03T21:24:21Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > There’s a big difference between “someone whose fear isn’t one included in the US’s specific laundry list” and “someone whose only reason to move is economic”. I’m not even getting into why it’s so completely absurd to be against economic migration. That specific laundry list of Credible Fear categories comes from UN treaties - the 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees and the 1967 Protocol relating to the Status of Refugees - which were enacted post-WWII. The entire asylum process laid out in those treaties was a response to the Holocaust. At that time Domestic Violence was not taken as seriously and threats from drug trafficking gangs were not envisioned. One factor in the whole idea of asylum/refugee status is that the claimant has credible fear to remain _anywhere_ in his/her home country. For example, a Mexican person claiming fear of persecution from unchecked activities of drug gangs in a Sinaloa cartel controlled area might fail a credible fear interview if the immigration officer believes that the claimant would not be subject to persecution if he/she moved elsewhere within Mexico. At least Mexico is a relatively large country. Imagine a similar claimant who fears threats from MS-13 gang members in El Salvador. Can they really move far enough away within El Salvador to feel unthreatened? But as it stands, current guidance from the Trump administration is that a foreign country’s inability to effectively police drug violence is not grounds for asylum since the threat to the claimant is not from the government of that country. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/35 "2019-01-04T16:52:33Z")
So terrorism as a legitimate asylum category simply does not exist. Score: drug cartels 50-some-billion, USA zero Score: Fascist dictators with thug gangs another large number, USA zero Score: Religious zealots probably an ever larger number, USA zero These people winning the game know what they are doing. Us, meh. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006/36 "2019-01-04T16:54:50Z")
Get the drugs, politics and religious bullshyt sorted and we are on easy street! 🆒 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dumping-asylum-seekers-whats-the-admins-justification/827006.md?page=1)