# Dune (Film) Post-release thread (open spoilers from film) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [October 22, 2021, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991 "2021-10-22T09:11:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/261 "2021-11-02T18:48:48Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Did it bother anyone else that his depravity was signaled by his physical unattractiveness? I always interpreted it as his depravity was signaled by his gluttony (as well as his pedophilia) which led to his enormous size. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/262 "2021-11-02T19:58:29Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > I watched the movie last night. A couple of caveats: I’ve read the novel, but it was decades ago. I’ve seen the Lynch movie, but it was decades ago. And I watched the movie at home, when it clearly was a movie that really would benefit from the full theatrical experience. That being said… > > I thought it was…ok. Again, I think it really would benefit from the full theatrical immersion experience, and watching it at home it probably really did lose something. But beyond that, it just seemed kind of…flat. I have only vague memories of the novel, but watching the movie it _felt_ like it watching scenes being lifted directly from the book, without any of the internal monologue or narration to put everything together. > > So, we _see_ Mentats, but it’s not at all clear from the movie what they are. We _see_ Doctor Yueh’s betrayal, but no indication of the fact that it’s supposed to be unthinkable, much less why. We get passing references to the baroque, byzantine politics of the Empire, but actual explanation of any of it. > > That last bit bothered me the most, probably. There’s somehow a system where the Emperor can just transfer a ridiculously wealthy fief from one noble house to another by imperial fiat, but at the same time the noble houses can just go to war with each other to grab each other’s fiefdoms? And the Bene Gesserit (sp?) are a shadowy power behind the throne, and everyone _knows_ they’re a shadowy power behind the throne, and just…lets them do that? For reasons? And Baron Harkonnen is afraid to outwardly cross them or violate the letter of his promise to them, for reasons, but has no hesitation with double-crossing them with the barest pretense of plausible deniability…for other reasons? > > And the movie makes a big deal about how House Harkonnen sabotaged the Spice harvest operation on their way out the door and how important it was for House Atreides to make their quota, and how it seemed to be impossible now, especially with the loss of the harvester and sacrifice the Duke made to save the crew, and then…none of that actually matters at all, because House Harkonnen just invades…later that night? > > Just to be clear, I’m not asking the Dune afficianados here to explain any of the above to me. I’m sure it all makes sense in the book. And the movie gets by on mood and spectacle. > > But watching it just left me kind of flat. I read the book recently and seen the Lynch film many times (also recently, as it’s on cable a lot) and I would tend to agree. I get that Villeneuve wanted to show this as more “Paul’s story”, so he intentionally left out all the inner monologues and exposition. But I think the end result felt…not rushed…more like you said - events just happen in sequence for…reasons. Like what was so important about secrecy from the Landsraad? Sure, you want operational secrecy during the invasion, but what are the optics here? Suddenly the Harkonan are back on Arrakis and all the Atraides are dead and oh by the way there is “secretly” a contingent of Imperial Sardurkar as well (apparently still in Imperial livery, not Harkonan as in the book)? How was that supposed to play out? Some other way than “the Emperor just fucked Duke Leto?” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/263 "2021-11-02T20:40:07Z")
Yeah, I wondered about that. But very powerful and “clever” leaders have done very dumb things before. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/264 "2021-11-02T21:01:33Z")
One thing they establish in the movie—not sure if it’s in the book—is that the moons prevented (or at least delayed) the operation of off-world communications, such that the events down below may go unreported on, except of course through whatever narrative the Emperor eventually allows as a cover story. A sort of “three men enter, two men leave” situation. As long as they keep their stories straight… ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/265 "2021-11-02T21:10:00Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I completely missed that he’s homosexual. But he’s the only fat person in the movie. And by far the ugliest. I don’t think you missed anything. As far as I remember, there was nothing at all in the film that gave any kind of indication of any sexuality at all. If that’s how the character is in the novels OK, but that was not depicted that way in the film. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/266 "2021-11-02T21:10:54Z")
Damaging the harvesting equipment was to drive up the price of spice which the Harkonnans (and their allies) had been stockpiling for years. Longer term the income that all the major houses got from the spice trade would drop, impacting the Atreides support in the Landsraad. In the book time definitely passes between when the Atreides take over and the Harkonnans invade, at least long enough for the Atreides to launch an attack on Geidi Prime (the Harkonnans’ home planet) to destroy the spice stockpile. > [@msmith537](#): > > Like what was so important about secrecy from the Landsraad? Sure, you want operational secrecy during the invasion, but what are the optics here? Suddenly the Harkonan are back on Arrakis and all the Atraides are dead and oh by the way there is “secretly” a contingent of Imperial Sardurkar as well (apparently still in Imperial livery, not Harkonan as in the book)? How was that supposed to play out? Some other way than “the Emperor just fucked Duke Leto?” A formal state of kanly existed between the Atreides and the Harkonnans. This is a formally recognized vendetta with well defined but limited types of warfare allowed (“War of Assassins”). If the emperor were to side with one house against another, it would unite the remaining houses against the emperor resulting in universal chaos. Hence, the emperor is very keen on keeping his involvement top secret. The other thing to remember in the Duniverse is that interstellar travel can only be provided by the Spacing Guild, who operate independently of the empire or the Landsraad (or the Bene Gesserit). You can’t just hop over to Arrakis on your own. The absence of prying eyes made it possible for the Sardauker to operate on Arrakis secretly. I assume that keeping the Sardauker in their own livery in the movie just made it easier to tell them apart for the benefit of the viewer. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/267 "2021-11-02T21:16:15Z")
Nitpick: it’s “Sardaukar.” ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/268 "2021-11-02T21:39:48Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > Damaging the harvesting equipment was to drive up the price of spice which the Harkonnans (and their allies) had been stockpiling for years. Longer term the income that all the major houses got from the spice trade would drop, impacting the Atreides support in the Landsraad. > > In the book time definitely passes between when the Atreides take over and the Harkonnans invade, at least long enough for the Atreides to launch an attack on Geidi Prime (the Harkonnans’ home planet) to destroy the spice stockpile. > > > [@msmith537](#): > > > > Like what was so important about secrecy from the Landsraad? Sure, you want operational secrecy during the invasion, but what are the optics here? Suddenly the Harkonan are back on Arrakis and all the Atraides are dead and oh by the way there is “secretly” a contingent of Imperial Sardurkar as well (apparently still in Imperial livery, not Harkonan as in the book)? How was that supposed to play out? Some other way than “the Emperor just fucked Duke Leto?” > > A formal state of kanly existed between the Atreides and the Harkonnans. This is a formally recognized vendetta with well defined but limited types of warfare allowed (“War of Assassins”). If the emperor were to side with one house against another, it would unite the remaining houses against the emperor resulting in universal chaos. Hence, the emperor is very keen on keeping his involvement top secret. > > The other thing to remember in the Duniverse is that interstellar travel can only be provided by the Spacing Guild, who operate independently of the empire or the Landsraad (or the Bene Gesserit). You can’t just hop over to Arrakis on your own. The absence of prying eyes made it possible for the Sardauker to operate on Arrakis secretly. > > I assume that keeping the Sardauker in their own livery in the movie just made it easier to tell them apart for the benefit of the viewer. The problem is, _none_ of that is in the movie. As I stated, I think the movie did suffer for me because I saw it at home, and I probably would have been carried more by the sheer spectacle in a theater. But I think I would have still been left kind of flat by it, because it was mostly just a series of things that happen, with no indication _in the movie_ of how or why, or why it matters, or of how one thing connects to another. Again, look at the…sub-plot, I guess? But it’s not even really that…about the Spice production. We get several scenes that make a big deal about the fact that the Harkonnens sabotaged the Spice production facilities on their way out, and dialogue about how House Atreides has an impending quota it doesn’t look like they’ll be able to meet, and how important it is for them to show the Imperial Adjudicator that House Harkonnen deliberately sabotaged the Spice production, so it’s not House Atreides’ fault if they miss their quota. There’s _nothing_ in the movie even _hinting_ at the idea that House Harkonnen is trying to create artificial scarcity, or that they have stockpiles. The _only_ implication in the movie is that House Harkonnen wants House Atreides to miss their quota, which seems like it should be important, and it seems like everyone in House Atreides sees that as a vital concern. And then…_none_ of that matters _at all_, because House Harkonnen just invades and kills everyone and bombards the city (after they capture it, for…reasons?). And, as far as I could tell _from the movie,_ that all happens over the course of maybe a couple of days. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/269 "2021-11-02T22:22:48Z")
Imagine if you knew absolutely nothing about WWII and you watched Saving Private Ryan. That’s kind of what this felt like. You see the events happen but have no idea of how important they are because of lack of context. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/270 "2021-11-02T22:47:37Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > But he’s the only fat person in the movie. And by far the ugliest. It’s pretty subjective but I think that Thufir Hawat looks “unusual” as Mentats tend to, but objectively the Baron’s not the only fat person. [![](https://assets3.thrillist.com/v1/image/3022561/1584x1054/crop;webp=auto;jpeg_quality=60.jpg) ](https://assets3.thrillist.com/v1/image/3022561/1584x1054/crop;webp=auto;jpeg_quality=60.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/271 "2021-11-02T23:49:34Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > There’s _nothing_ in the movie even _hinting_ at the idea that House Harkonnen is trying to create artificial scarcity, or that they have stockpiles. Except for when the Baron tells Rabban they have stockpiles of spice. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/272 "2021-11-03T00:01:06Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Except for when the Baron tells Rabban they have stockpiles of spice. Ok, well, I missed that, obviously. Did the movie also explain the rest of the artificial scarcity plot and I just missed the whole thing? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/273 "2021-11-03T00:10:05Z")
Pretty sure they did. I read the books (and the prequels) and I thought they did a good job hinting that the scarcity caused by the Harkonnans was to make the Atreides be in trouble with the other houses for not producing spice. The assumption is that after the war, the Landstraad would welcome the Harkonnans back as rulers of Arrakis since they knew how to provide enough spice. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/274 "2021-11-03T00:28:38Z")
Huh. I don’t remember that at all. In what scene(s) did they discuss it? And did House Atreides actually miss their quota in the movie? I remember them _discussing_ the quota a lot, but I don’t remember a scene actually establishing that they _missed_ it. It seemed like Harkonnen invaded and killed everyone before the Spice shipment was even due. Or was the implication supposed to be that there were continual shipments off-world and Atreides was already missing or shorting shipments? If so, that wasn’t _at all_ clear to me. But maybe it’s my fault as a viewer for not picking up on what were clear indications to most viewers. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/275 "2021-11-03T00:32:24Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > It seemed like Harkonnen invaded and killed everyone before the Spice shipment was even due. There was a subtitle that it was 2 years later. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/276 "2021-11-03T00:40:31Z")
Ok, I apparently somehow just plain missed several key plot points. Nevermind, then. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/277 "2021-11-03T00:48:05Z")
Don’t feel bad, I missed all of that too. It felt like about 12 hours between the worm eating the spice rig and the invasion. I legit thought it was supposed to be later that same night. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/278 "2021-11-03T01:23:18Z")
I missed the two years later thing too. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/279 "2021-11-03T01:52:58Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > > [@gdave](#): > > > > It seemed like Harkonnen invaded and killed everyone before the Spice shipment was even due. > > There was a subtitle that it was 2 years later. Are you sure? Paul tells Jessica that he knows she is pregnant shortly after they come back from rescuing the men from the spice harvester. When they escape to the Fremen she has not given birth, and in fact her early stage (not showing) pregnancy is a key plot point for the rest of the story. In the book there is a two year jump, but it is after Paul goes to the Fremen. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991/280 "2021-11-03T03:10:51Z")
I don’t remember a “2 years later” subtitle either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-film-post-release-thread-open-spoilers-from-film/952991.md?page=15)