# Dune Part 2 \[Open Spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [March 6, 2024, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550 "2024-03-06T20:09:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/21 "2024-03-07T21:40:22Z")
> [@Catamount](#): > > I was so completely lost. I would say that’s why God Emperor is my least favorite Dune, but I dislike it on its own merits. Could it be because nothing happens the entire book, except for Duncan Idaho getting constantly shit on? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/22 "2024-03-07T23:59:03Z")
You are correct and I appreciate the explanation. It’s been a long time since I read the book and I had forgotten Hawat’s involvement in the plot. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/23 "2024-03-08T04:43:19Z")
God Emperor was where Herbert lost me as a reader. I was however in junior high at the time, and just couldn’t wrap my mind around it. Perhaps my imagination has grown enough over the decades since that my appreciation would grow on a re-read. As far as the movies go, I’m perfectly happy with Villeneuve stopping after Messiah. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/24 "2024-03-08T12:41:45Z")
> [@Catamount](#): > > Getting a summary would definitely have helped me. I was so completely lost. I would say that’s why God Emperor is my least favorite Dune, but I dislike it on its own merits. But that’s a hijack for another day. When I saw the David Lynch version of **Dune** when it first opened back in 1984 they actually gave out 8.5" x 11" “cheat sheets” that defined terms used in the movie and gave you some background. Evidently they thought a lot of people would be hopelessly lost without the additional information (even though the movie itself opens up with _two_ recountings of the background). The only other movie I can recall that did that was **Executive Action** – which was the “JFK” before Oliver Stone’s **JFK** , back a decade earlier. They gave out what amounted to a newspaper with heavily footnoted background information on the Who Killed Kennedy conspiracy. Nowadays I’m sure anyone who wanted to give you extra background would just give you a URL or, more likely, a QR code and let you read up on it on the web. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/25 "2024-03-08T12:59:43Z")
Yes. Absolutely NOTHING HAPPENED until Leto II fell off the bridge at the end. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/26 "2024-03-08T13:19:44Z")
> [@Jack\_Burden](#): > > As far as the movies go, I’m perfectly happy with Villeneuve stopping after Messiah. It would be fitting, for Villeneuve to make it a set of films that is the self-contained rise and fall of Paul Atreides. And leave space for others to apply other visions. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/27 "2024-03-08T13:23:15Z")
> [@Catamount](#): > > Yes. Absolutely NOTHING HAPPENED until Leto II fell off the bridge at the end. Bridgekeeper: Stop! Who would cross the Bridge of Tuono must answer me these questions three, ere the other side he see God Emperor: Ask me the questions. I am not afraid Bridgekeeper: WHAT…is your name? God-Emperor: I am Leto II Atreides, God Emperor of the Known Universe! Bridgekeeper: WHAT…is your Quest? God-Emperor: I seek the Golden Path Bridgekeeper: WHAT…is you favorite color? God-Emperor: Ochre and Brown and Gold He is suddenly borne up and dropped into the river, where he breaks apart into individual sandtrout and the rest dissolves. [A Deep Dive into the Cinematography and Color Palette of Dune Part 2 - Postpace Blog](https://postpace.io/blog/dune-movies-cinematography-color-palette/#:~:text=The%20color%20palette%20of%20%E2%80%9CDune,unforgiving%20nature%20of%20the%20environment). ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/28 "2024-03-08T14:28:15Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Note, I’ll repeat the advice I give most new readers: Read Dune, then skip Messiah and Children, and then read the rest of the OG books - God Emperor, Heretics, and Chapterhouse. If you still enjoy it, go back and read Messiah and Children, but those two are something of a slog IMHO. I finally got through Dune a few years ago after first being exposed to it as a seven-year old and being fascinated by the cover art. So it took me repeated efforts over 40+ years to read the first book. Great story, but a slog to say the least. When I finally finished Dune, I started on immediately with Dune Messiah but bogged down almost immediately. Not sure if I will ever finish any of the sequels. By the way, what does “OG” mean? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/29 "2024-03-08T16:32:25Z")
> [@robby](#): > > By the way, what does “OG” mean? Original Gangster, meaning authentic, the best, not those inferior copies. It came from gangs and rap culture but is used generally now. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/30 "2024-03-08T16:41:57Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > I do not for one moment believe that one can organize a globe-spanning political or religious movement in 9 months. The movie implies that the Bene Gesserit had a much more active role on Arrakis than in the books, but I am still skeptical. Religious zealots may yearn for a messiah, but they are also extremely wary of false prophets. The Bene Gesserit had been creating the movement for generations before _Dune_. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/31 "2024-03-08T16:43:21Z")
> [@Jack\_Burden](#): > > God Emperor was where Herbert lost me as a reader. I was able to make it through that book, but the 3 after that were completely incomprehensible to me. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/32 "2024-03-08T17:07:05Z")
Sorry, I try to be better about that @robby, and thanks to @TroutMan for explaining. For anyone who wants a more detailed definition: > **[What Does "OG" Mean?](https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/og/)** > > "OG" is a slang term for someone who's incredibly exceptional, authentic, or "old-school. Learn more about the term and its usage here. It gets used a good bit in many online communities, and I’ve seen it used here by others (myself as well of course), but never hurts to check my assumptions. Most frequently, a bunch of us, when referencing the published StraightDope Column refer to that as the OG 'Dope, or OG Straightdope. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/33 "2024-03-10T15:48:56Z")
I saw Dune 2 in Imax yesterday. Random thoughts: The Imax auditory experience was unbelievable. In the scenes with sandcrawlers, I really felt like I was walking in front of a gigantic piece of construction machinery. I was very impressed with how closely Villeneuve stuck to the plot. Sure, he had to discard some things (Hawat working for the Harkonnens, the side plot of the Harkonnens trying to make Jessica out to be the traitor, Count Fenring etc). The differences were mostly minor, and inoffensive, Alia’s status being the largest. And he did let Gurney kill Rabban, which the book really begged for. Chani’s departure at the end of the movie was one of the biggest changes, it seems to me. But I’m guessing it’s tougher to sell the girlfriend being OK with the protagonist making a marriage of convenience now than it was in 1965. And Paul getting stabbed twice in the final fight with Feyd-Ruatha was ridiculous. The Kwisatz Haderach doesn’t have Wolverine’s healing powers. BTW, quick question - was it ever stated in either movie that Jessica and Leto were not married? That’s an important part of the book, and makes Chani’s pill easier to swallow. But my wife, who never read the books said she had no idea they weren’t married. And I found out she really hates the word “concubine.” ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/34 "2024-03-10T16:11:23Z")
In Dune 1 Leto says “I should have married you” to Jessica at one point. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/35 "2024-03-10T16:39:39Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > BTW, quick question - was it ever stated in either movie that Jessica and Leto were not married? That’s an important part of the book, and makes Chani’s pill easier to swallow. But my wife, who never read the books said she had no idea they weren’t married. And I found out she really hates the word “concubine.” Yes, I want to say I recall one quick line back in Part 1, but it’s true they did not go deeper into it whether with Leto/Jessica nor Paul/Chani/Irulan. As to the latter… this applies too: > [@muldoonthief](#): > > I’m guessing it’s tougher to sell … now than it was in 1965. And _even_ in the 60s you were at the tail end of being able to casually throw around the use of the term other than to emphasize the “exoticness” of the setting – and _even then_ sounding to Western ears like blatant orientalism. (Western Culture is thoroughly familiar with the notion of a purely political dynastic Marriage In Name Only while the parties’ true affections continue elsewhere, but in relative recent memory our kings and tycoons have had _mistresses_, not concubines, not legally “bound” to them and nominally free to just walk away as long as they left the swag behind.) It does serves however to spotlight that the BG’s agenda is _not_ to empower _women_ per se, it’s to empower _the BG_. In the specific case of Chani in Dune 2 it’s not just a harder sell 60 years later, you also have the issue that the reconceptualized Assertive Freethinker Chani of the Villeneuverse, even if informed ahead of time of the nature of the plan, would have been expected to say “what outworlder bull\*\*\*\* is that you are talking about, Usul?” ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/36 "2024-03-10T19:09:20Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I was able to make it through that book, but the 3 after that were completely incomprehensible to me. There are only two more after that, assuming you are talking about Frank Herbert. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/37 "2024-03-10T20:00:38Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And _even_ in the 60s you were at the tail end of being able to casually throw around the use of the term other than to emphasize the “exoticness” of the setting – and _even then_ sounding to Western ears like blatant orientalism. (Western Culture is thoroughly familiar with the notion of a purely political dynastic Marriage In Name Only while the parties’ true affections continue elsewhere, but in relative recent memory our kings and tycoons have had _mistresses_, not concubine Edmund Blackadder: I can just see it now, just me in my bed, surrounded by my concubines Baldrick: Won’t it get all prickly? ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/38 "2024-03-10T23:10:19Z")
I wasn’t at all surprised by the end of the book. Villeneuve had to do a considerable amount of excising to reach the point of Chani storming off at the end making sense. In the book, Paul already had _ **two** _ Fremen “wives”. Jamis’ widow (and children) became his after his defeat of Jamis. (and offered more insight into the pragmatic mindset of the Fremen when she tells Paul she wants to be his provided he teaches her children the “weirding way” of fighting). Besides, Paul had shared his life within the ducal household, so she knew that Leto had not married Jessica because that allowed him to use his “unmarried” status with other houses, holding out hope of stronger alliances. So Chani already shared Paul with another woman (though not sexually, as far as I can tell) and knew that such arrangements existed in the Imperium, so why would she be surprised when the outcome of defeating the Emperor’s champion would be adding his daughter? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/39 "2024-03-11T09:56:33Z")
Just saw it. Not bad. Certainly stunning in an audiovisual sense. And far truer to the book than the Lynch version. And yet… there were some parts of the Lynch version that I still prefer. I don’t recall what the book did, but I really liked the scene where Paul takes the Water of Life in the desert, and the worms surround them under the moonlight. The new movie has that take place in some dumb temple, and it doesn’t seem to cause nearly enough agony in Paul. He’s just quietly almost dead. And… I think I prefer the voiceover. The Villeneuve movie does not fully succeed in explaining everything. Yeah, “show, don’t tell” is the usual mantra for movies. But the books are incredibly dense, and have inner dialogue within them, and loads of details just end up getting glossed over. What _really_ sticks with me over the years is not the plot, or the characters, or the dialogue, or the special effects, but the _aesthetic_. And somehow, despite mostly failing as a movie, Lynch’s movie absolutely nails a certain aesthetic that has stuck with me decades later. Villeneuve’s Dune mostly has not done so, though a few small elements like the ornithopters and wormriding are compelling enough to be memorable (though I haven’t figured out how worms propel themselves in a straight line like that). ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550/40 "2024-03-11T10:13:42Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > it’s tougher to sell the girlfriend being OK with the protagonist making a marriage of convenience now than it was in 1965. Drugged-up cannibal slave women: A-Ok. Concubines: right out. Oh, it’s only because the Harkonnen are bad guys? Then the movie missed the point because _everyone_ is a bad guy. The Atreides aren’t supposed to be some wallpapered-over version of modern westerners. And the Fremen _certainly_ aren’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-open-spoilers/998550.md?page=3)