# Dune Part 2 Question (Spoilers…I guess) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [March 2, 2024, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360 "2024-03-02T15:28:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2024, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/41 "2024-03-03T23:12:30Z")
Could still be a deliberately imprecise timeline, or on the other hand a typo crept in when he put in that Appendix. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2024, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/42 "2024-03-03T23:21:45Z")
Well, Herbert had 20 years to explain or refine or retcon mistakes or ambiguities in the book. But, maybe he was uninterested in doing that (Tolkien did that a lot). ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2024, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/43 "2024-03-04T00:24:50Z")
As noted the reference to her being 4 was from the Emperor’s perspective. My youngest daughter is 5 right now and she looks, acts, and speaks like a five year old. If you were to meet her and observe her you’d probably ask if she is “about 5? Maybe 6?”. The point being she looks and sounds that age range. Imagine a 3 year old Alia though. This isn’t a toddler. This is a Reverend Mother with generations of Reverend Mothers inside her mind. She can see the past, has the knowledge and abilities of a Bene Gesseret, and physically carries herself as a Reverend Mother. Not as a clumsy toddler. So the Padishah Emperor who probably has limited exposure to children, could easily up-age her a year or so. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2024, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/44 "2024-03-04T00:29:44Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > As noted the reference to her being 4 was from the Emperor’s perspective. It’s from the narrator’s perspective, really, as much as the earlier description of her being “about two years.” The line from the scene with the Emperor & Baron is: “Through the door came two Sardaukar herding a girl-child who appeared to be about four years old.” She’s definitely a “girl-child”, regardless of her age though. Wasn’t Dune originally serialized in a magazine? It’s possible FH wasn’t concerned in getting every date & age exactly correct, especially if parts were getting published before other parts were even written. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2024, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/45 "2024-03-04T00:59:13Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > It’s possible FH wasn’t concerned in getting every date & age exactly correct Almost certainly the case. Genre writers of that era were paid by the word; not for proofreading. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2024, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/46 "2024-03-04T01:10:23Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > There wasn’t in the first book, but the second book takes place after the Fremen Galactic Jihad. It always came off as a bit of a retcon to me. The first book ends with Paul preventing a war by threatening the spice and marrying Irulan, and then for reasons unexplained, a war happens anyway. In _Dune,_ Paul has a vision of the coming Jihad and knows it’s unavoidable. No matter what Paul does or whether he lives, the Freman Jihad is going to happen and untold billions are going to die. Paul defeated the emperor, he didn’t avoid a war. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2024, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/47 "2024-03-04T03:04:50Z")
A rather heartbreaking story about Dune Part 2 … > **[Dune: Part Two premiered at Quebec palliative care home to fulfil man's dying...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/dune-ii-man-dying-wish-1.7132622)** > > The work of Quebec filmmaker Denis Villeneuve was shown in a room at a palliative care centre to fulfil the end-of-life wish of a long-time film fan in a special world premiere a month and a half before the official launch. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2024, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/48 "2024-03-04T03:39:56Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > A rather heartbreaking story about Dune Part 2 … > > [Dune: Part Two premiered at Quebec palliative care home to fulfil man's dying wish | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/dune-ii-man-dying-wish-1.7132622) Oof. What do you think that guy thought when it got to the end, clearly setting up part 3? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2024, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/49 "2024-03-04T03:47:03Z")
So sad. I have seen a few things like this where someone with a terminal illness was able to play a game or see a movie as their last wish because they likely would not survive till the official release. It’s very cool when these companies do something like this for these people. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2024, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/50 "2024-03-04T04:08:46Z")
As I recall from the book: “It was in the 3rd year of the desert war when…” Alia was a _very_ precocious toddler, actually in command of a troop of warriors when she was taken alive by the emperor’s men. Abomination The Bene Gesserit were using the spice drug mostly the same way as the fremen to produce reverend mothers, that is, the genetic memories of an individual’s ancestors would be awakened within. They’d learned the hard way that doing this to an infant was a bad idea. Without a well-formed personality of their own, the ‘preborn tended to become adults of nasty habits.’ Jessica didn’t know any of this because she was not a reverend mother track BG, she was very much a worker bee in the BG’s plans. Paul and Chani her, Do you want me to leave? him (taken aback), Leave? You’ll never again leave my side. her, There’s nothing binding between us (legally, culturally) him, That which binds us cannot be loosened The Jihad Paul’s visions were incomplete, malleable and cryptic. His first vision of the jihad revolted him, and he sought to oppose it. He mistakenly thought he had to be there at the crucial moment because if he died or disappeared it would go on with the legend he’d already become. Much of his actions in the first book were to try to prevent the war. Only after defeating all opposition did he realize that it was being driven by forces more powerful than him, and it couldn’t _be_ stopped. Humanity had grown stale and somehow ‘knew’ a wild, chaotic mixing of genetic material was needed. ---
**Author:** ![Yodalicious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yodalicious/32/8195_2.png) [@Yodalicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yodalicious)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2024, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/51 "2024-03-04T14:36:49Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I wonder what possessed them to eliminate child-Alia My guess is to keep the focus on Paul. At its most basic, Dune is a revenge story, and Paul has to get his revenge. Also, fully aware toddler Alia is kind of creepy, and talking to Jessica through womb-phone is weird enough. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2024, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/52 "2024-03-04T14:53:50Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I haven’t read the book, but I think her reaction in the movie is consistent with her lover telling her that he’s going to marry someone else, even if it’s only political. > > Of course, it’s also consistent with her not understanding that, but her character seemed to understand Yep. The movie makes a lot of changes compared to the book, but it is cohesive. You should read the book, but just the original. It packs in a lot that adaptations can’t really capture. > **[Dune (novel)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(novel))** > > Dune is a 1965 epic science fiction novel by American author Frank Herbert, originally published as two separate serials (1963-64 novel 'Dune World' and 1965 novel 'Prophet of Dune') in Analog magazine. It tied with Roger Zelazny's This Immortal for the Hugo Award for Best Novel and won the inaugural Nebula Award for Best Novel in 1966. It is the first installment of the Dune Chronicles. It is one of the world's best-selling science fiction novels of all time. > Dune is set in the distant future... ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/53 "2024-03-04T16:11:58Z")
(BTW though often derided for being produced on the cheap and for its own adaptation choices, the SyFy Channel miniseries of Dune from back in 2000 does keep a lot of novel items that were left off of the feature-film releases so it’s not all bad as a supplementary resource.) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/54 "2024-03-04T17:24:15Z")
Uh, I loved the 2000 Scifi Channel movie. I love the Children of Dune followup as well, which covers book 2 and 3. I never read past 3, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/55 "2024-03-07T00:40:17Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Uh, I loved the 2000 Scifi Channel movie. > > I love the Children of Dune followup as well, which covers book 2 and 3. Glad to see them appreciated on their own value. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/56 "2024-03-07T00:49:11Z")
Prior to the current offerings, one of my friends stated that they wanted the _script_ of the Scifi version with the budget, acting talent, and lushness of the 1984 Lynch version. Since I own both on DVD, and the new Part 1 version, I can pick and choose. While I have huge issues with the 1984 iteration and the liberties with the story plus Kyle MacLachlan being just too damn old for the role (no other complaints about him, just bugged me) I love the baroque nature of the whole world down to every tiny setpiece and prop. Very Lynchian, I know. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/57 "2024-03-07T01:20:02Z")
I thought MacLachlan was a little too old for Paul at the beginning of the movie, and a little too young for Paul at the end of the movie. Short of spreading the production out over half a decade, I think MacL was about as good as they could have done. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/58 "2024-03-07T01:48:02Z")
Paul is born 10175 AG, goes to Dune 10191 AG (early in the year) aged 16, with the Desert war ending in the battle of Arakeen at the very end of 10193 per the [online timeline](https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline_(Original_Dune)), which while probably not perfect is more accurate than not. So Paul is 18 to 19 by the end of Dune (discounting Messiah and Children of Dune). So I don’t see your point, unless you mean that if the Lynch version was successful, and they made the addtional books, that he’d be too old in Dune and too young to play the character in Messiah. Since Kyle was, what, 25 at the time of release of the 1984 version per a quick check of IMDB? Again, I don’t have a beef about his acting talents, and fully acknowledge that Hollywood is prone to cast twenty-somethings as teens all the time, and that Timothee Chalamet was roughly the same age biologically, but he’s much more convincing appearance-wise playing a teen. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/59 "2024-03-07T02:01:19Z")
Two years to build a religious movement and political movement capable of conquering a planet, and an army capable of conquering a galaxy? I don’t care how many psychic powers he has, that is way too fast. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360/60 "2024-03-07T02:08:30Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Two years to build a religious movement and political movement capable of conquering a planet, and an army capable of conquering a galaxy? They were already there, waiting to be exploited. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-2-question-spoilers-i-guess/998360.md?page=4)