# Dune Part Three **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [March 17, 2026, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528 "2026-03-17T17:38:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2026, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/61 "2026-04-16T18:24:49Z")
Herbert goes into quite a bit of that in the appendices. IIRC, the sandworms exhale oxygen. Mentats are trained “human computers,” they do not fold space. The Spacing Guild uses the Spice to gain prescience to be able to navigate folded space. There was a sort of collapse of technology called the Butlerian Jihad - the war against the thinking machines. After which, not only were thinking machines outlawed, they were sinful. This did make interstellar travel impossible, until the Spacing Guild came about. That is why all the dates you see in Dune are labeled A.G. ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2026, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/62 "2026-04-16T18:32:48Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > But no real explanation of how it does the magic it does, right? Exactly. He was writing in a rather different frame. Myth in the future, when technology has, in Clarke’s words, become indistinguishable from magic. Some of it is partially understood, much of it has been lost in deep time. Like the abbadingo in Alpha Ralha Boulevard. BTW, run, don’t walk. to your library or bookstore, and pick up Cordwainer Smith’s work if you haven’t read it. It is… marvellous! ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2026, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/63 "2026-04-16T18:45:43Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > IIRC, the sandworms exhale oxygen. Hmm. I’d like to see the chemistry of that. Where do they get the energy and materials from? > [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Mentats are trained “human computers,” they do not fold space. Yes, you are correct in story. It is the navigators who fold space, not the mentats. The mentats are a bit disappointing in the book though: we never see a really convincing demonstration of their supposed supercomputer powers. > [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > There was a sort of collapse of technology called the Butlerian Jihad - the war against the thinking machines. Yes, that’s a handy get-out, though Herbert never foregrounded it. Perhaps wisely. As I said: Dune is myth, not hard SF. Read it as such. The later ‘fixup’ attempts were lame, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2026, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/64 "2026-04-16T19:03:04Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > > [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > > > IIRC, the sandworms exhale oxygen. > > Hmm. I’d like to see the chemistry of that. Where do they get the energy and materials from? It’s a straightforward reaction: sand (SiO2) is broken down into silicon and oxygen in a reaction with carbon. It takes some extreme temperatures (~1900 C), which sandworms create internally using [mumble mumble]. It does tend to produce a lot of CO2 as a byproduct, but that is easily converted into O2 by LOOK! Over there! ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2026, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/65 "2026-04-16T19:12:40Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > It’s a straightforward reaction: sand (SiO2) is broken down into silicon and oxygen in a reaction with carbon. It takes some extreme temperatures (~1900 C), which sandworms create internally using [mumble mumble]. It does tend to produce a lot of CO2 as a byproduct, but that is easily converted into O2 by LOOK! Over there! Ah, right. Just the way that McCaffrey’s dragons can fly. “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2026, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/66 "2026-04-16T19:50:06Z")
If Science Fiction used actual science, it wouldn’t be Science _Fiction_, would it? ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2026, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/67 "2026-04-16T20:34:03Z")
IIRC there are “sand plankton” which are the basis of the food chain. Wikipedia says some plants are there (creosote bush, various cacti, etc.) Brian ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2026, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/68 "2026-04-16T20:44:28Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Wikipedia says some plants are there (creosote bush, various cacti, etc.) Yeah, poking around various wikis devoted to Dune, reportedly the planet had Earth plants introduced that could survive in an arid environment. So the planet wasn’t totally barren of flora. In addition, it was revealed that the Fremen had already been terraforming the planet in secret, breeding plants, animals, and fish in isolated areas, and bribing the Spacers Guild to keep their fishy mouths shut (since this couldn’t hide from the Guild’s advanced sensors on their ships). Now, that raises other questions. Is there _enough_ flora to sustain a breathable atmosphere? And how did that flora get a foothold to begin with if it was introduced to a planet that didn’t have it before? It’s easy to say, “There are some desert plants so everything is fine,” but I don’t know if that would actually work in practice. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2026, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/69 "2026-04-16T21:12:37Z")
Also, Arrakis wasn’t ALWAYS a desert planet and the sandworms aren’t native. The sandtrout were introduced from… somewhere, by… someone at some point in the distant past, and the desertification was the result of their thriving and developing into the worm form, which wasn’t possible wherever they were from. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2026, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/70 "2026-04-16T22:20:31Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > Dune is myth. Not SF. None the worse for that, but trying to apply hard SF logic rather misses the point, I guess. So much kvetching from the Science **Fact** ion. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2026, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/71 "2026-04-17T16:19:45Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > There was a sort of collapse of technology called the Butlerian Jihad - the war against the thinking machines. I rather enjoyed Samuel Butler’s satirical book “Erewhon” (which had the idea of machines being alive and evolving – just look at wristwatches over the years). ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2026, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/72 "2026-04-17T18:16:14Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If Science Fiction used actual science, it wouldn’t be Science _Fiction_, would it? This is not at all true. Science fiction is simply fiction set in the present day or an imagined future (or past, for that matter) that may or may not conform to our current scientific understanding. Some science fiction does rigorously conform to our present-day scientific understanding. This is sometimes referred to as “hard” science fiction. Some science fiction veers into more speculative territory, and some goes more into the realm of fantasy. And as Arthur C. Clarke famously said, “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Which for fiction set tens of thousands of years into the future—such as the setting of _Dune_—tends to blur the distinction between science fiction and fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2026, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/73 "2026-04-17T18:55:01Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > I rather enjoyed Samuel Butler’s satirical book “Erewhon” (which had the idea of machines being alive and evolving – just look at wristwatches over the years). Ha! I don’t wear a wristwatch. Don’t trust them. See: > **[Press Enter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Enter)** > > "Press Enter", often stylized PRESS ENTER ■, is a science fiction novella by American writer John Varley originally published in the May 1984 issue of Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine. In 1985 it won the Locus Award for Best Novella, Hugo Award for Best Novella and Nebula Award for Best Novella. > Korean War veteran Victor Apfel discovers his neighbor, Charles Kluge, has died and bequeathed a significant inheritance to him. The Los Angeles Police Department is satisfied that Kluge has di... ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2026, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/74 "2026-04-17T19:08:07Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Some science fiction does rigorously conform to our present-day scientific understanding. This is sometimes referred to as “hard” science fiction. > > Some science fiction veers into more speculative territory, and some goes more into the realm of fantasy. Not true. All science fiction is speculative; the whole genre is under the umbrella of “[speculative fiction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculative_fiction)”. What differentiates “hard” science fiction from other types is a matter of subjective relativism; it’s _less_ speculative than other stories in the genre, but it’s still speculative. Otherwise it would by definition not be science fiction, just as @Alessan said. But if you’re making the point that Dune and stories like it could be _less_ speculative and still be science fiction, you are absolutely correct. Frank Herbert could have tried to ground things better into known science. He chose not to. I don’t think doing so would have been better or worse, just different. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2026, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/75 "2026-04-17T19:22:36Z")
There was also the key point of driving the Ixians to create no-rooms and no-ships, essentially a field that created a space impenetrable to prescience, so that another future prescient God Emperor could never again control humanity. Heretics and Chapterhouse though tended to veer off the most into Heinlein-horny tittilation. “Your sexy lesbian naked soldiers are no match for my 27 orgasmic-addiction seduction techniques! Let’s battle!” I exaggerate only very slightly. God Emperor was my favorite book of the bunch and the one I’ve re-read most. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2026, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/76 "2026-04-17T19:45:50Z")
**xtenkfarpl,** “Press Enter” really is a great tale. One of my favorite scary-AI short stories. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2026, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/77 "2026-04-17T20:24:37Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > But if you’re making the point that Dune and stories like it could be _less_ speculative and still be science fiction, you are absolutely correct. Yes, that’s what I’m saying. While all science fiction falls under the broader category of speculative fiction, some science fiction is more or less speculative than others. But to my original point to @Alessan, there’s no reason why science fiction can’t utilize “actual science.” The rigorousness of the science in the story (or lack thereof) is not what makes it science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2026, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/78 "2026-04-17T20:27:38Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Yes, that’s what I’m saying. > > While all science fiction falls under the broader category of speculative fiction, some science fiction is more or less speculative than others. Fair enough! ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2026, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/79 "2026-04-17T20:38:24Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > So much kvetching from the Science **Fact** ion. I’m not kvetching. Dune is a great work of imaginative fantasy based more on historical thinking than physics and chemistry. But he DID rather set up a target with the dedication: “to the dry-land ecologists”.. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2026, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528/80 "2026-04-17T22:11:29Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > How does Arrakis have an oxygen atmosphere without vegetation and photosynthesis? Sandworms. They produce oxygen. Explicitly stated in _Children_ > [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > Where do they get the energy and materials from? Their insides are superheated, chemical factories (possibly nuclear in the big ones, who knows?), and they’re exotic - probably silicon-based - life. So who knows, they probably get it from the rocks they eat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-part-three/1028528.md?page=5)