# Dune - what would most upset Fremen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 22, 2009, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301 "2009-08-22T10:48:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/21 "2009-08-22T21:46:48Z")
Having diarrhea and taking a dump in the catch basin ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/22 "2009-08-22T23:13:57Z")
> [@Aquila\_Be](#): > > It was an enclosed conservatory, in other words a closed cycle plant growing system. The amount of water lost to the outside would have been minimal. From what I read in Dune, even if it was a perfect closed system,all water belongs to the tribe. The conservatory may have been concidered hoarding. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/23 "2009-08-23T01:50:11Z")
A Sandmage ( from _Sandmagic_, an old short story by Orson Scott Card ) would offend just by his existence, much less what he’d do. A sandmage gains his magic by serving the desert and giving it what it “wants”; dryness and death. A sandmage would be committed to scattering what little water they have; he’d “teach” the sands to overrun and dry their farms, to insinuate itself everywhere like a live thing, to creep into and fill what wells they have, to mound up against that conservatory until the walls are breached and the sand pours in to scatter the water. A literal “servant of dryness” who gains powers from his destructiveness would be a walking water crime, I’d think. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/24 "2009-08-23T03:43:31Z")
I would think spitting toward his feet, like in the old westerns, would be the ultimate insult/outrage to a single Fremen. Don’t know if the whole tribe would get in an uproar about it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/25 "2009-08-23T04:00:58Z")
Las Vegas’ tourist cooling system. ---
**Author:** ![Aquila\_Be](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@Aquila\_Be](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquila_Be)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/26 "2009-08-23T04:04:57Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > From what I read in Dune, even if it was a perfect closed system,all water belongs to the tribe. The conservatory may have been concidered hoarding. > > Declan Perhaps, but it wasn’t made clear in the context that it appeared in the novel. Particularly when you consider that the book also describes a really bone headed action taken by Duke Leto during a well attended official dinner. This was done at a time when he was trying to establish and consolidate his position on Dune. It would more likely have inspired a rebellion: > [@](#): > > The Duke allowed his voice to trail off on the last line, took a deep drink from his water flagon, slammed it back onto the table . Water slopped over the brim onto the linen. > The others drank in embarrassed silence. > Again, the Duke lifted his water flagon, and this time, emptied its remaining half onto the floor, knowing that the others around the table must do the same. It’s been years since I saw the original movie and can’t recall whether or not that scene was used or not. I haven’t seen the series but I’d be interested to know if this scene was used in it. Just to veer slightly off topic, [a bit of Dune related news from astrogeology.usgs](http://astrogeology.usgs.gov/HotTopics/index.php?/archives/369-New-Name,-Descriptor-Term,-and-Theme-Approved-for-Use-on-Titan.html), the descripter term planitia has been approved for use on Titan with the theme “Names of planets from the Dune series of science fiction novels by American author Frank Herbert (1920 - 1986).” The first planitia name on Titan has also been approved; Chusuk Planitia is located at 5.0S, 23.5W. I’m not sure that a moon like Titan, awash in methane and oil, is really a good match for Dune. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/27 "2009-08-23T05:19:54Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I would think spitting toward his feet, like in the old westerns, would be the ultimate insult/outrage to a single Fremen. Don’t know if the whole tribe would get in an uproar about it. No, that’s actually considered a sign of respect. IIRC, it’s an _Atreides_ that gets outraged when a Fremen spits at his feet. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/28 "2009-08-23T05:40:17Z")
> [@Aquila\_Be](#): > > The first planitia name on Titan has also been approved; Chusuk Planitia is located at 5.0S, 23.5W. You’d think the first one would be Arrakis. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure that a moon like Titan, awash in methane and oil, is really a good match for Dune. Considering what Herbert meant melange to stand for, I think the match may be perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/29 "2009-08-23T11:37:18Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Considering what Herbert meant melange to stand for, I think the match may be perfect. Off topic : Keanu-style woah. I must be awfully slow, because I never made the parallel. You just blew my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/30 "2009-08-23T13:29:56Z")
A super-soaker yard fight. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/31 "2009-08-23T19:08:13Z")
Southern California style watering down the sidewalk. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/32 "2009-08-23T19:26:13Z")
Nobody’s mentioned flush toilets yet? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/33 "2009-08-23T20:08:25Z")
There is a scene in _The Three Amigos_ where they’re out in the desert on their horses. Steve Martin takes a drink (and I believe gets only a drop). Then Martin Short pulls out his canteen, looking like he’s dying of thirst and gets a mouthful of sand from the canteen. Then the two of them look over at Chevy Chase, who takes his full canteen, washes up a bit, gargles and spits, then throws the mostly full canteen onto the ground. The other two look frustrated. Fremen would kill him for that. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/34 "2009-08-23T20:41:38Z")
> [@Johnny\_Q](#): > > Nobody’s mentioned flush toilets yet? Who would make those when they can just poo in their suits. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/35 "2009-08-23T21:50:15Z")
Sorry for the hijack, but is there some particular reason that the planet Arakis, home of the most precious resource in the known universe, can’t simply import whatever water it needs? I mean it ain’t exactly rare in the rest of the galaxy. Oh and I’m going with a Slip N’ Slide. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/36 "2009-08-23T21:55:01Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Sorry for the hijack, but is there some particular reason that the planet Arakis, home of the most precious resource in the known universe, can’t simply import whatever water it needs? I mean it ain’t exactly rare in the rest of the galaxy. > Oh and I’m going with a Slip N’ Slide. The Fremen control the planet (once you get out of the cities). The Fremen actually have more access to the spice than the government. The Fremen bribe the Spacing Guild NOT to orbit weather satellites. The reason is that if Arrakis became non-arid, the source of the spice would die. The sandworms create the spice. Water is fatal to the sandworms. So: Water=no spice. Another reason is that the Fremen consider Arrakis (or actually, Dune) their testing ground. It’s what’s kept them a strong people for so long. It’s their religion, in a way. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/37 "2009-08-24T21:20:35Z")
**Grumman** said: > [@](#): > > No, that’s actually considered a sign of respect. IIRC, it’s an _Atreides_ that gets outraged when a Fremen spits at his feet. IIRC, it isn’t spit at his feet, it’s spit on his face. Which has to be explained as an act of giving water. Though that still seems a poor way to show respect and giving water. Maybe pissing in his stillsuit would be better. 😃 Spitting on the ground would be wasting water. So that might be taken as an insult. “I’d rather waste this water than share it with you.” **Aquila Be** said: > [@](#): > > Particularly when you consider that the book also describes a really bone headed action taken by Duke Leto during a well attended official dinner. This was done at a time when he was trying to establish and consolidate his position on Dune. It would more likely have inspired a rebellion: I think you misunderstand. This occurs after Duke Atreides learns that the spilled water is taken out and given to the poor. He does this to force there to be a lot of water for the poor, rather than a small quantity. This is done as an act for the people, and is one of the things that the Fremen are aware of. Though it may not put him in good with the power base in the city. And yes, the spitting scene was in Lynch’s _Dune_. I don’t recall about the Sci Fi version, but possibly. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/38 "2009-08-24T21:46:59Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > IIRC, it isn’t spit at his feet, it’s spit on his face. Which has to be explained as an act of giving water. Though that still seems a poor way to show respect and giving water. Maybe pissing in his stillsuit would be better. 😃 Stilgar spits on the conference table. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/39 "2009-08-24T23:45:15Z")
Watching the Tank Girl movie. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301/40 "2009-08-25T13:51:48Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > Watching the Tank Girl movie. Watching Waterworld. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dune-what-would-most-upset-fremen/507301.md?page=3)