# Dungeon of the Dead (Munchkin Forbidden Thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 16, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048 "2009-02-16T04:38:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sir\_Dirx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Sir\_Dirx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Dirx)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/61 "2009-02-25T05:15:05Z")
> [@](#): > > So the end of this long chain of inferences is that at least one thief is Evil, and Hockey Monkey is pretty much exonerated by being accused by sachetorte. Therefore, Darth Sensitive is probably evil. I don’t remember seeing him as town in any game I watched, but he does seem to be playing a bit like he did when he was scum. Not posting very much, and when he does, it’s often a “me-too” vote, or “oops, didn’t see that, let me re-read.” Then again, I tend to always associate him with scum. Being the godfather for his very first two games leaves a bit of a taint (in addition to being completely hilarious). Unless **Sach** really is good and somehow telling the truth, Scum would have had a smoother game, methinks, if he hadn’t made that investigation claim. Unless they really are that close to winning… I’m torn; I love watching and speculating with no outside knowledge, but I’m also dying to know what’s going on. **Pleo** , consider this a pre-emptive request for the spoiler-board info once this game is over. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Dirx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Sir\_Dirx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Dirx)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/62 "2009-02-27T03:05:27Z")
So… Maybe I’ve been watching Lost too much, but, with the feeling that **Sachertorte** is scum, I keep getting a “Ben Linus” vibe from his posts now. Which leads me to ask: has anyone done a Lost-themed mafia game yet? It seems to lend itself very nicely to the game’s mechanics (survivors vs “others,” a doctor, a former interrogater, etc). Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/63 "2009-02-27T03:30:57Z")
> [@Sir\_Dirx](#): > > So… Maybe I’ve been watching Lost too much, but, with the feeling that **Sachertorte** is scum, I keep getting a “Ben Linus” vibe from his posts now. Which leads me to ask: has anyone done a Lost-themed mafia game yet? It seems to lend itself very nicely to the game’s mechanics (survivors vs “others,” a doctor, a former interrogater, etc). Just curious. This is such a good idea. Someone should do this. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/64 "2009-02-27T19:30:25Z")
I’m now thinking that having ties result in multiple lynches is a power that the Town cannot handle. It’s better for ties to result in no lynches or be resolved by a separate mechanism. I still like the multi-vote system, though. I think it allows for the consensus to develop more naturally. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/65 "2009-02-27T19:45:09Z")
I dunno. In our last somewhat large number of games, “consensus” has been nearly impossible to achieve. Players keep getting lynched with very small vote counts, which represents a huge fail on the part of the Towns, and I’m not sure why. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/66 "2009-02-27T19:55:25Z")
What is the vote count right now? This is tense. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/67 "2009-02-27T21:25:41Z")
OK, what in the Lower Planes just happened? Why in the world was a Chaotic **Cookies** setting up Chaotics as the enemy? Why did she use her Wind, if she was Chaotic? Why would **Boozahol** backstab **Cookies** unless he was evil, but if he was evil (and thus presumably not cursed), why didn’t Evil curse anyone? And if **Boozahol** didn’t stab her, how could she have died? For that matter, why would anyone have targeted her? She doesn’t seem like a particularly large threat to anyone, to me. And while we’re at it, why didn’t anyone notice that **Hockey Monkey** was voting for **Hawkeyeop** but not for **ShadowFacts**? If **Hawkeye** is Evil, then surely so is **Shadow** , who claimed to have found him Good. Meanwhile, we now know of the existence of several other items. The Helm of Empathy, Shield of Adamantium, Orb of Healing, Amulet of Magic Resistance, Amulet of Reflection, Gauntlets of Ogre Power, Ring of Invisibility, Ring of Limited Wishes, and Wand of Holding all exist in this game, and may have been used at some point. That leaves only six wildcard items unaccounted for. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/68 "2009-02-27T21:44:52Z")
I started the game willing to flirt with either axis, and I tried to stay in that mode. I have no idea what the distribution is yet, but once BlaM and zuma turned out to also be CG, I figured I may either be the last or one of the last CG players, and all of my mentioning of CG was purely to try and obscure myself as being CG. _shrug_ I was probably playing with way more PFK motivation than I should have been, in hindsight. Turn 1 went to my Chaotic side, more dead bodies the better. Turn 2 went to my Good side, at least with my vote. I wasn’t really caring which side I may have been sparring with in the thread. Turn 3, my action was with Good in mind (Good was doing so bad, I figured I’d give them a reset button), but my play in the thread was definitely more PFK. I thought I’d see how long I could go playing schizophrenically as such. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/69 "2009-02-27T21:47:44Z")
This may be one of the few instances of mafia-type games where outing evil can be just as useful as confirming good. One of the main reasons for this is the multiple lynch. You don’t waste resources by lynching evil because you can still lynch multiple evils. And with the interplay of powers and magic items not only is confirmation of townies worth less, but removing evil from the game is huge boon for town. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/70 "2009-02-27T21:54:17Z")
…Except “playing chaotic” in this game means trying to stay alive regardless of anything else, which means encouraging more killing is the last thing you want. By the way, did you use your Luck this turn? Your death and the small number of items blown into the Hoard suggest that you didn’t, but it does seem like using your two once-per-game powers together would have been a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/71 "2009-02-27T22:04:27Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > This is such a good idea. Someone should do this. Paulwhoisaghost is–he’s got a really good setup, too. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/72 "2009-02-27T22:05:56Z")
I did use my luck. And I was consciously trying to look like I wasn’t trying to stay alive, because I was trying to distance myself from being Chaotic. _shrug_ ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/73 "2009-02-27T22:16:34Z")
The Druid wind only has a low chance of success per magic item. Ignoring the 2 items already in the Hoard and the 3 items that fell in due to deaths, the we’d expect about 2 of the remaining 10 to be blown in. Instead, we had 3, which is close to what we’d expect if she’d used her luck. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/74 "2009-02-27T22:20:23Z")
Sorry, I didn’t think my use of luck was much of a spoiler, but technically it is. \ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/75 "2009-02-27T23:21:41Z")
> [@](#): > > The Druid wind only has a low chance of success per magic item. Ignoring the 2 items already in the Hoard and the 3 items that fell in due to deaths, the we’d expect about 2 of the remaining 10 to be blown in. Instead, we had 3, which is close to what we’d expect if she’d used her luck. Yeah, I was forgetting about the 2 already in there, and I think I was double-counting (or failing to account for double-counting, or whatever) the ones that fell in from deaths. Which still leaves the question of how she died. Without a spoiler of what actually _did_ happen, **Pleonast** , would use of a power like the Wind potentially trigger **Boozahol** ’s traps? By my interpretation of the rules, the Wind doesn’t exactly target **Boozahol** , since it affects everyone indiscriminately, but you might be using a different definition. EDIT: Oh, and it now looks like **sachertorte** was speaking purely hypothetically when he talked about lying about his investigations, and that his investigation of **Hockey Monkey** was on the second turn. In that case, there isn’t the ironclad case against him that I outlined above, but it doesn’t make any sense (one way or the other) why he mentioned the hypothetical. So I’m going to revert to the assumption that his pro-town playing on Turn 1 was because he was actually Town, and that he just said something that made no sense for no apparent reason. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/76 "2009-02-27T23:31:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Which still leaves the question of how she died. Without a spoiler of what actually _did_ happen, **Pleonast** , would use of a power like the Wind potentially trigger **Boozahol** ’s traps? By my interpretation of the rules, the Wind doesn’t exactly target **Boozahol** , since it affects everyone indiscriminately, but you might be using a different definition. The Druid wind cannot trigger an Assassin’s traps, since it’s an “area-of-effect” power. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/77 "2009-02-28T04:11:44Z")
OK, final question: When I asked earlier about the Bag of Tricks, does everyone see all of the animals, or only the dog? Because if the other animals are secret, then the Wolf attacking **Cookies** is one of only two explanations left for her death. It can’t have been the Axe of Hacking or the Sword of Dancing, because either of those would have ended up in the Hoard, and it can’t have been the Sword of Slashing, because that’s publicly visible, and it can’t have been traps, since we know what she did, and it wasn’t targeting **Boozahol**. The other explanation, of course, is that **Boozahol** stabbed her. But that doesn’t make all that much sense, either… If he’s Evil, then either Evil cursed Evil last turn (which doesn’t make sense), or they didn’t curse anyone and wanted to establish **Boozahol** as a “confirmed” Townie (in which case the backstab doesn’t make sense). He might have stabbed her because he _thought_ she was Evil (he did vote for her), but that was a bad move, since he didn’t have any privileged information about her, and the case against her obviously wasn’t strong enough to convince any other Townie. The only scenario in which it was a good move for a Good **Boozahol** to stab **Cookies** would be if he had the Helm of Telepathy, used it to investigate **Cookies** , and got re-directed onto an evil character via the Staff of Command, but that doesn’t make sense either, because in addition to requiring the use of two items we don’t even know exist, it also requires someone Evil to risk death to redirect **Boozahol** when they don’t even know that he has an investigative item. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/78 "2009-02-28T14:14:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > He might have stabbed her because he _thought_ she was Evil (he did vote for her), but that was a bad move, since he didn’t have any privileged information about her, and the case against her obviously wasn’t strong enough to convince any other Townie. Well, that’s just it, though. You’re going to find as you play/watch these games that, for whatever reason, the logic you suggest above - while I agree with it wholeheartedly - simply doesn’t click with most of the people who play this game. Just about every player who has ever been given the choice to kill as a pro-Town agent has chosen to use that power to take out someone that was pinging them. Far more often than not, the Vig winds up killing Town, sometimes even pro-Town power roles. The smart play for a pro-Town Vig who has the option is almost always to NOT kill unless there is a tremendously compelling reason TO kill, but as I said in the off-board game, give most players a hammer, and they will start to see the whole world as a bunch of nails. This is actually my single biggest frustration in the entire game, because no one agrees but it seems so self-evident to me. Ack! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/79 "2009-02-28T18:46:56Z")
Eh, in an ordinary ruleset, that might even make sense: If your hunch is right, then Town gets to kill two scum a turn, instead of just one, so there’s at least some payoff. But with multi-lynch available, if there’s good reason to kill two people in a turn, then you can do so cleanly, with full accountability and with built-in protection against a single player having an oversensitive scum-meter. And the funny thing is, **Boozahol** seemed to realize this on Turn 1, when he tried to deliberately waste his power. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048/80 "2009-03-02T05:14:18Z")
…And, with that [latest post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10892320&postcount=762), I’m convinced that **sinjin** is either a really desparate scum, or desparately needs a vacation. That’s some high-quality nuttery. If I were in that game, and the game didn’t end after the dual-lynch of **Darth Sensitive** and **Chucara** , I’d be voting **sinjin** next turn. The fact that he’s spent all of his actions (at least, so he claims) twiddling his thumbs in spectacular manner doesn’t count well for him, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeon-of-the-dead-munchkin-forbidden-thread/486048.md?page=5)