# Dungeons and Dragons 4 and the Murder of Faerun **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 14, 2007, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947 "2007-12-14T02:08:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/141 "2008-08-25T23:04:33Z")
Apparently Lathander was just a phase he was going through, probably when he was painting his nails and putting glitter on to go to raves. He now wants to be called Amanautor. Summary of the Realms 4e setting changes [here](http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1074154) BTW. Also: gleemax is still a stupid name, even if it is going the way of the dodo. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/142 "2008-08-26T00:19:10Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] Apparently Lathander was just a phase he was going through, probably when he was painting his nails and putting glitter on to go to raves. He now wants to be called Amanautor. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but Amanautor is frightening and strict, ant not a nice guy like Lathander is. So, it’s made me sad. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/143 "2008-08-26T13:03:34Z")
It’s just not appealing to me anymore. The magic is gone. The Forgotten Realms setting is, for my intents and purposes, dead. WotC won’t see a dime of my money for FR material unless they do a 180 and put it back the way it was, which won’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/144 "2008-08-26T13:55:14Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Yeah, but Amanautor is frightening and strict, ant not a nice guy like Lathander is. So, it’s made me sad. [/QUOTE] This is one of the stranger things, and I’ll go ahead and mention it specifically. The problem with this is is that, well, Lathander is nothing at all like Amaunator. I mean, we’re not talking about a mild personality change (read: growth and teen uncertainty) like you get in puberty. Lathander is totally and completely different from Amaunator in just about every way. The Big L is easy-going, kind, not terribly reliable, but warm hearted all the way. He’s Neutral Good and not shy about it. Amaunator is strict. I mean _iron-clad_ strict. He’s the dude who claimed the dominion of time, should he ever need it, because of a grammatical mistake\*. He was absolutely loyal and perfectly faithful, sort of like a nicer version of Helm. Heck, he was just plain more mature than Lathander. \*I Am Not Making This Up. The contract inadvertently left off a comma, so Amaunator wound up being “responsible for all time.” And so he was, although he generally left it to Mystral (the original form of Mystra). Oh yeah, and Amaunator is _dead_. I mean, he’s dead as a doornail. His corpse, she izza floating in the Astral, yah? Yah! This doesn’t mean he’s totally helpless (he is a God, and has done things after his death, too), but he’s not hanging around in the form of Lathander. I mean, if they want to bring Amaunator back, fine, but as _Lathander_? Geez. Those two would be fighting for a millenium over who got to be the chief Sun God. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/145 "2008-08-26T14:03:45Z")
Didn’t they do this with the Greyhawk mythos back when 3rd ed began, too? Pelor (?) went from being a pretty benevolent god of light to being some sort of martial general of the light or something, complete with turning his laid-back domain into a military fortress. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/146 "2008-08-26T15:00:33Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] Summary of the Realms 4e setting changes [here](http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1074154) BTW. . [/QUOTE] Wow. That looks _awesome_. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/147 "2008-08-26T17:39:33Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Didn’t they do this with the Greyhawk mythos back when 3rd ed began, too? Pelor (?) went from being a pretty benevolent god of light to being some sort of martial general of the light or something, complete with turning his laid-back domain into a military fortress. [/QUOTE] Previously, I think TSR also changed St. Cuthbert from LG to LN. This actually pissed me off because I am Catholic and well, he’s a bloody _Saint_. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/148 "2008-08-26T17:50:10Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Personally, I just wish I could find relatively inexpensive copies of all the 1st and 2nd edition guidebooks, rulebooks, game settings, etc. I could do with sitting down with Al-Qadim, Dark Sun, Spelljammer, Ravenloft, vintage Realms, every Dragon back issue from #1 to when they went to perfect-bound with 3rd Edition, three or four iterations of PHB, DMG…I really would like to find Monster Manual and MMII, the hardbound books, not the 2nd Edition binders. And I don’t even PLAY anymore…I’d just like this stuff around to READ. [/QUOTE] I’ve seen quite a few 2nd edition books at Half-Price Books. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/149 "2008-08-26T18:00:08Z")
[QUOTE=smiling bandit] Previously, I think TSR also changed St. Cuthbert from LG to LN. This actually pissed me off because I am Catholic and well, he’s a bloody _Saint_. [/QUOTE] I’m pretty sure that the St. Cuthbert in the D&D multiverse isn’t a Catholic saint, though…I’m not sure what the institutional church in Furyondy was, even if it was modeled on medieval Catholicism, but it’s not REAL Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/150 "2008-08-26T18:22:13Z")
[QUOTE=smiling bandit] Previously, I think TSR also changed St. Cuthbert from LG to LN. This actually pissed me off because I am Catholic and well, he’s a bloody _Saint_. [/QUOTE] As I understand it he was changed from LG with LN tendencies to LN with LG tendencies. The difference doesn’t seem significant enough to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/151 "2008-08-26T18:30:13Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] I’m pretty sure that the St. Cuthbert in the D&D multiverse isn’t a Catholic saint, though. [/QUOTE] By coincidence, I’m sure, there actually was a Catholic soldier/monk named St. Cuthbert. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/152 "2008-08-26T19:18:31Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] By coincidence, I’m sure, there actually was a Catholic soldier/monk named St. Cuthbert. [/QUOTE] [Absolutely.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuthbert_of_Lindisfarne) ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/153 "2008-08-26T20:24:48Z")
The point is, I felt rather uncomfortable about them using actual people who were monotheists as Gods in their fantasy world… and then saying he wasn’t even Good (granted, DnD alingment is so flexible it’s menaingless, but still…) ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/154 "2008-08-26T20:50:24Z")
I seem to recall a module in which the players had to recover the sacred Cudgel of St. Cuthbert. The adventure transported them from the Realms to modern-day Earth, and the Cudgel was on display in the British Museum. So apparently the Realms’ St. Cuthbert really was the same guy as the Catholic saint. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/155 "2008-08-26T21:01:38Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] Wow. That looks _awesome_. [/QUOTE] Wow. Internet discussions on 4e have completely put my sarcasmometer on the fritz. I totally cannot tell the difference between the some that want abortions, and the others that want miniature American flags, anymore. sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/156 "2008-08-26T21:38:29Z")
I wasn’t being sarcastic. I truly, honestly, unequivocally believe that the 4e FR looks cool. I also love the changes 4e has done with the D&D cosmology. I mean, abandoning the Great Wheel after 20-odd years took guts, sure, but replacing the Ethereal Plane with Faerie (sorry - the Feywild) is neat, not to mention classical-minded; the Astral Sea is a throwback to the old Immortal Set cosmology, which I always liked; and merging the Elemental Planes with Limbo is sheer genius, one of those things that are so obvious I’m kicking myself for not thinking of them first. If the New Forgotten Realms has an actual narrative describing how one multiverse shifted into the other… that’s a story I HAVE to read. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/157 "2008-08-26T23:56:37Z")
I don’t like shadow creatures. Heroes shouldn’t be afraid of shadows. Odesio ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/158 "2008-08-27T00:49:11Z")
[QUOTE=Odesio] Heroes shouldn’t be afraid of shadows. [/QUOTE] If they aren’t, you’re not using them right. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/159 "2008-08-27T10:35:34Z")
Nothing freaks a hero out more than a properly used shadow creature. I don’t mind the cosmology so much… annoying, but not too bad. (I have to figure out some way to mash favorite bits back in. Sigil, f’r example, is necessary.) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947/160 "2008-08-27T10:55:25Z")
I gained respect for shadow creatures - especially the more equine of them - after reading Roger Zelazny’s\* Creatures of Light and Darkness\*. It’s a good book, if you haven’t read it. And Sigil’s still there - they mention it specifically. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dungeons-and-dragons-4-and-the-murder-of-faerun/429947.md?page=7)