# DUP now biggest Unionist Party, what fun. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716 "2003-11-28T13:28:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/41 "2003-11-29T19:32:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ZombiesAteMyBrain \* > Well, hope you enjoy a nice rant together - and don’t get too pissed to find your way home. I’m sure **Aro** and his northern buddies, not too mention **jjimm** and **curly chick** ( both English) will keep me in check. In fact I may be the only Paddy there :eek: 😉 Too drunk too find my way home when I’m going out after 8pm what do you take me for, a yank or something :p\* - now boys that’s only a slag and not meant to be taken seriously ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/42 "2003-11-30T11:23:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ZombiesAteMyBrain \* > **As I’ve said - there are bully boys on both sides.** Nobody said otherwise. > [@](#): > > The DUP was formed because, as with the church, no other political party was right wing enough for Paisley. That’s simply untrue. The DUP was formed because Paisley, Boal etc thought the Unionists were too soft in their policies regarding nationalists. At the time it even proclaimed itself as a party of the left in aspects other than the constitutional issue. [Cite.](http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/organ/dorgan.htm) > [@](#): > > Have you ever even lived here in Norn Iron? What qualifies you as an expert on the country I’ve lived in all my life? I know we’re in the Pit, but I don’t really feel the need to sink to ad hominem attacks over this. If you can provide actual evidence to show that anything I’ve said is incorrect, by all means please do so. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/43 "2003-11-30T11:25:58Z")
**yojimbo** hope you guys had a nice time. I was at a combined victory party/ launch of our local election candidate. Hopefully we repeat the success next summer. ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/44 "2003-11-30T12:15:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*Not just a majority. _100%_ of the unionist population doesn’t want a united Ireland. That’s why they’re called unionists - because they want to preserve the union (with Britain). > **ok, maybe i should’ve said Protestants instead of unionists (as being a unionist you would be in favour of the union). It’s just that I don’t think this is an issue between religions anymore, but between people in favour of a united ireland, and people in favour of keeping the Union.** > > To be honest, I wouldn’t put anything past this Government. Last year when the census figures from the north were due to be released, there was a lot of speculation that they might show a near 50-50 split between Protestant and Catholic. Unionists went into panic mode and several of them started talking about this fiction they called “dual consent”, in which a majority not only of northerners in general but _majorities from both the Catholic and the Protestant populations_ would have to approve reunification before it could take place. Now, this is absolutely, 100% outside the terms of the GFA, but at the time I was seriously concerned that the Irish Government might fall for it - they don’t have the stomach to stand up to unionists, as we saw in last month’s debacle. > **yes, this is by far the most opportunistic and cowardly government I have seen in Europe, and I’m originally from Belgium, so that’s saying a lot. And they’re supposed to be the _Republican_ party. > Didn’t Blair threaten Trimble with holding the referendum on the GFA throughout the whole of Britain, instead of just NI? I think Trimble was trying to sabotage the whole agreement, or wanting to make last minute changes, or something. So Blair got fed up, and threatened to hold it throughout the whole of the UK (this was back in 1998). hehe. I say the British would have taken the opportunity to tell the Norn Irish to feck off. Cos that’s the problem, isn’t it? The Unionists think they’re so British, while the Brits think of them as Irish. Is Sinn Fein’s optimism justified, though? They’re talking about a united ireland in 2016. I think it’s going to take longer than that, whadyareckon?** > > As long as there are fewer nationalists than unionists in NI they don’t have to do anything. IMHO what the DUP really wants to do is turn back the clock to the time when conditions were so bad for Catholics that a lot of them just emigrated. Ethnic cleansing, Norn Iron style. \*\* I think that’s what IP wants to do, anyway. Maybe the DUP as a party has more sense, and wants to take the process forward, you never know. Isn’t it frightening, though, that a lot of people know what they stand for, and still voted for them? or voted for them because of it? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/45 "2003-11-30T12:46:29Z")
elfje, Have you mixed up your posters? Ruadh is that last person I’d call a unionist 🙂 As for the results, I’m very, very worried for the future, and what Paisley has in store for the GFA. He’s not one to restrict his religious views from tempering his political judgement. have a look at his peace and love for all men (except if you are catholic) website [http://www.ianpaisley.org/](http://www.ianpaisley.org/) (choice selections are the caustic comments page [Sermons of Dr. Ian Paisley | SermonAudio](http://www.ianpaisley.org/toc.asp?loc=comments) and the joy of his guestbook > **[Sermons of Dr. Ian Paisley](https://www.sermonaudio.com/source_detail.asp?sourceid=paisley)** > > Dr. Ian R. K. Paisley | Belfast, Northern Ireland fills you with a warm glow. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/46 "2003-11-30T12:48:03Z")
> [@](#): > > ok, maybe i should’ve said Protestants instead of unionists (as being a unionist you would be in favour of the union). I really should learn to read what you write properly 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/47 "2003-11-30T12:57:14Z")
mm, yes, I was a bit baffled by your first post 🙂 thanks for the links, when my stomach settles (it was a bit of a rough night, last night), I might hazard a look. I just hope Blair and Bertie won’t allow him to renegotiate the GFA. ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/48 "2003-11-30T16:15:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*I know we’re in the Pit, but I don’t really feel the need to sink to ad hominem attacks over this. If you can provide actual evidence to show that anything I’ve said is incorrect, by all means please do so. \*\* Where was the ad hominem attack? I simply suggested that those who live here have a much better idea of the reality of northern irish politics than people merely looking in from the outside. The DUP have said a lot in the past - I don’t believe, for example that they have a plan for a better agreement to replace the GFA - on 2 TV talkshows today they were asked what that plan was - and were unable to come up with specifics. From where I sit they are, and always have been, incredibly right wing - I remember Paisley attacking the civil rights marchers - and his little show of his supporters brandishing their firearms certificates. You are welcome to your viewpoint - you are on the outside looking in! ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/49 "2003-11-30T16:24:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ZombiesAteMyBrain \* > **From where I sit they are, and always have been, incredibly right wing - I remember Paisley attacking the civil rights marchers - and his little show of his supporters brandishing their firearms certificates.** But again, this relates to the nationalist-unionist issue specifically. Yes, the DUP have always been hardline on that issue, but this does not _in itself_ make them a “right wing” party. It most certainly does not demonstrate that they were formed because the other parties weren’t “right wing” enough. > [@](#): > > You are welcome to your viewpoint - you are on the outside looking in! That may be the case, but you still have not shown that I have my facts wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/50 "2003-11-30T16:35:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*(And we all know the Dutch had nothing to do with it! [sub][sup]Well, apart from bringing Protestantism and William to Britain. Sorry 'bout that.[/sup][/sub]) \*\* They did? Well, actually the Dutch _were_ largely responsible for bringing Protestantism to England, though it was Erasmus, followed by the Rotterdam Protestant faction, that quietly started the Anglican movement rolling. So go right ahead and blame **Coldie** , everyone. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/51 "2003-11-30T17:10:40Z")
well, it seems like they’ll be able to sort something out. Fact is indeed, stranger then fiction! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/52 "2003-11-30T17:11:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*But again, this relates to the nationalist-unionist issue specifically. Yes, the DUP have always been hardline on that issue, but this does not _in itself_ make them a “right wing” party. It most certainly does not demonstrate that they were formed because the other parties weren’t “right wing” enough. > /B] NOT right-wing??? Just look at their stance on civil rights, abortion and gays, for starters. Listen to any speech of R.I.P’s about the Unionist Party, co-operation with Catholics etc. If you want to prove me wrong, come up here and live for a few years - get your information first-hand. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/53 "2003-11-30T17:31:42Z")
If you want to prove _me_ wrong, reply to what I actually posted. > [@](#): > > But again, this relates to the nationalist-unionist issue specifically. Yes, the DUP have always been hardline on that issue, but this does not _in itself_ make them a “right wing” party. It most certainly does not demonstrate that they were formed because the other parties weren’t “right wing” enough. Nowhere in there do I say that the DUP are not actually right wing. ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/54 "2003-11-30T17:37:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\* > Nowhere in there do I say that the DUP are not actually right wing. \*\* Then please tell me what you WERE saying??? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/55 "2003-11-30T17:45:14Z")
We really need a “banging your head against a wall” smiley. What I have said, several times over, is that the DUP were formed because of their disagreement with the UUP on how to deal with the nationalist population. _This is not a right-left issue_, therefore it is not accurate to say they were formed because the UUP or other parties “weren’t right wing enough”. What part of that do you have trouble understanding? ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/56 "2003-11-30T17:50:18Z")
Ruadh said DUP was formed cos unionists thought other unionist parties weren’t unionist enough. You then claimed it was because no other party was right-wing enough, and elaborating on their hard unionist stance (with that, in my opinion, already proving ruadh’s point) Ruadh then said that holding a hard stance on unionism does not _in itself_ make a party right-wing. that’s what she was saying Oh, and you did attack her (and Yojimbo), wondering what made her an “expert” of a country she didn’t even live in, and then later on hoping her and yojimbo would have a nice rant together. She never claimed to be an expert, she merely offered her point of view. So drop it already. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/57 "2003-11-30T17:52:37Z")
Thanks elfje, nice to know somebody understands me 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/58 "2003-11-30T18:07:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*What I have said, several times over, is that the DUP were formed because of their disagreement with the UUP on how to deal with the nationalist population. _This is not a right-left issue_, therefore it is not accurate to say they were formed because the UUP or other parties “weren’t right wing enough”. > What part of that do you have trouble understanding? \*\* Dictionary definition of right wing right wing n. The conservative or reactionary faction of a group. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/59 "2003-11-30T18:19:26Z")
Well, if you’re going to define “right wing” in such a way as to take in the treatment of nationalists, then it appears you were actually _agreeing_ with me when you said they were formed because the other parties weren’t right wing enough. Which raises the question as to why you followed that statement with a suggestion that, as a non-resident, I couldn’t possibly know anything about the place. ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716/60 "2003-11-30T18:21:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elfje \* > \*\* > Oh, and you did attack her (and Yojimbo), wondering what made her an “expert” of a country she didn’t even live in, and then later on hoping her and yojimbo would have a nice rant together. > > She never claimed to be an expert, she merely offered her point of view. > > So drop it already. \*\* Someone else brought up the word ‘rant’ - I merely picked up on it - It was a joke, already!!! And it is not an attack to state the ‘fact’ that people living in this country know more about what goes on here!! I apologise for hurting her ‘oh, so delicate feelings’ with a pretty obvious statement of fact which would apply to any country in the world - I don’t claim any expertise on Southern politics. \*\*So drop it already. \*\* [/QUOTE] Are you the moderator here? Sorry, I didn’t know! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dup-now-biggest-unionist-party-what-fun/215716.md?page=4)