# During the Cold War, was it illegal for Americans to move to the USSR? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 7, 2017, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218 "2017-02-07T08:23:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218/21 "2017-02-08T21:22:59Z")
There were, no doubt, many Americans who had never bothered to get USA citizenship and were still citizens of the old country long after immigration. My grandfather came to the US in 1905, with Russian citizenship, and didn’t become a US citizen until the late 1930s. My grandmother never became a citizen at all, I don’t think, unless hers was automatic as a spouse. There must have been many who similarly came from Axis countries who also did not change their citizenship. Any could certainly have gone back without any impediment of US law. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218/22 "2017-02-08T23:50:58Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > I know when I applied for Social Security last year, they sent a brochure and listed about 12 countries where they would not send checks. Azerbaijan was one of them, which I noticed because they now have a Formula 1 race that the now-deposed Bernie Ecclestone raved about while trashing Montreal. The only two countries where Social Security absolutely will not send payment are North Korea and Cuba; Treasury Dept regulations forbid sending any checks to those two places. (You can’t get a tax refund sent there either, or other federal payments.) There are twelve countries, all former Soviet republics (including Azerbaijan, Ukraine, Tajikistan, etc.), that are “SSA-restricted”–the Social Security Administration hasn’t been able to reach an agreement for orderly distribution of checks and reasonable free access to people and vital statistics records. (Basically, they’re afraid of theft and fraud.) There are [special procedures](https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0302650040), however, for beneficiaries who live in those countries: basically, you have to show up at the embassy or consulate every so often (in [Ukraine, e.g., every month](https://ua.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/social-security/)) to prove you’re still alive and to collect your check in person. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218/23 "2017-02-09T00:12:27Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > …There must have been many who similarly came from Axis countries who also did not change their citizenship. Any could certainly have gone back without any impediment of US law. Yes, all Japanese immigrants fell into this category as until 1952 it wasn’t legally possible for then to naturalize. Their children born in the US were citizens from birth. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218/24 "2017-02-09T02:55:08Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > The only two countries where Social Security absolutely will not send payment are North Korea and Cuba; Treasury Dept regulations forbid sending any checks to those two places. (You can’t get a tax refund sent there either, or other federal payments.) > > There are twelve countries, all former Soviet republics (including Azerbaijan, Ukraine, Tajikistan, etc.), that are “SSA-restricted”–the Social Security Administration hasn’t been able to reach an agreement for orderly distribution of checks and reasonable free access to people and vital statistics records. (Basically, they’re afraid of theft and fraud.) There are [special procedures](https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0302650040), however, for beneficiaries who live in those countries: basically, you have to show up at the embassy or consulate every so often (in [Ukraine, e.g., every month](https://ua.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/social-security/)) to prove you’re still alive and to collect your check in person. There isn’t really very much practical relevance to that anymore. A retiree can simply have his pension direct deposited into any globally recognized bank, and access the funds through ATM machines using a card issued by that bank. Or use a credit card to access funds, and then pay the CC balance from his bank online. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218/25 "2017-02-09T03:58:41Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > There isn’t really very much practical relevance to that anymore. A retiree can simply have his pension direct deposited into any globally recognized bank, and access the funds through ATM machines using a card issued by that bank. Or use a credit card to access funds, and then pay the CC balance from his bank online. No, if your mailing address is in any of the aforementioned countries, you can’t have it direct-deposited anywhere without going through the procedures. For example, as the link for the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine notes, if you reside in Ukraine and want your Social Security benefit direct-deposited into a U.S. bank account, you still have to show up at the embassy in Kyiv once a month and prove you’re still alive before the deposit can be released to your bank in New York or London. Now if you manage to convince the SSA you live in the U.S. when you really don’t, then you can have it direct-deposited wherever for as long as you keep up the subterfuge, but if you get caught, it’s considered fraud, because you’re not eligible for payments without going through the special procedures. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218/26 "2017-02-09T06:14:25Z")
But if I move to Ukraine, and keep an account at my US bank, the SSA will keep direct depositing it in that account forever. All that needs to be done is to have a trusted person in the USA maintain a joint bank account and mailing address with you, have your SSA direct deposited, then go wherever you please and access the cash from an ATM. I lived that way in South America for three years, the SSA never knew, nor cared, nor asked where I was. I just used my card to get money. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218/27 "2017-02-09T06:46:43Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Agreed; that might have been a warning that Cuba and the other listed countries did not accept a US passport as a valid travel document. I think that’s very unlikely. Why would the US take it upon itself to start writing _other_ countries’ border control policies into it’s passports? Especially when those policies tend to degrade or diminish the value of a US passport? And when those policies might change at any time, thus rendering the passport inaccurate and misleading? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218/28 "2017-02-09T13:26:11Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > What about Japan/Germany/Italy during WWII? Would the US Government have tried to stop you in any way if you wanted to move to those countries? I don’t believe that that the US could have done anything. There were no direct routes, obviously, so you would have to travel via a neutral country, such as Spain and then it would be a matter between that country and the Axis nation. Getting to Japan would have been far more difficult. There weren’t any(?) neutral counties conveniently nearby and none which allowed travel to Japan, AFAIK. Given that American citizens were interned by those countries during the war, I doubt anyone was foolish enough to have actually tried. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218/29 "2017-02-09T15:21:03Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > But if I move to Ukraine, and keep an account at my US bank, the SSA will keep direct depositing it in that account forever. Sure. However, if the SSA ever finds out that you are living in Ukraine, that’s an automatic six-month suspension of your benefits, AND you may find yourself owing months or years of overpayments back to the SSA, which they can seize out of your future benefits . If that’s money you depend on for living expenses, oops. (They don’t have a ban on payments to any South American countries, so while you technically are supposed to report any absence from the U.S. of over 30 days, you don’t run the same risks there as you do to the countries on the SSA-restricted or banned lists.) ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218/30 "2017-02-09T15:26:24Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > I think that’s very unlikely. Why would the US take it upon itself to start writing _other_ countries’ border control policies into it’s passports? Especially when those policies tend to degrade or diminish the value of a US passport? And when those policies might change at any time, thus rendering the passport inaccurate and misleading? Perhaps it’s merely telling you that if you do manage to get into Cuba, etc., you’re on your own–there are no consular services available, they have no reason to expect you’re going to be admitted without problems, and they don’t want to deal with an American stranded in Havana and looking for help that isn’t going to come. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218/31 "2017-02-09T16:28:55Z")
I lived in the Soviet Union in 1977. We were there on Academic visas, because my father was on sabbatical and doing research. We were not permanent residents, nor had any intention of becoming so. I did meet lots of Americans who had lived there for a long time and were happy there. None of them had the equivalent of green card status-- they were all on some kind of business, like working for companies that stationed them there, or they were journalists or diplomats. However, I did meet one person when I came back who had lived there for what at the time was “indefinitely.” It turned out to be five years. He met his wife in the US, and they got married in the US-- she was Russian-- but she somehow got denied a permanent visa from the Soviet Union, and defector status from the US, so she had to return to the Soviet Union. He was granted a visa to return with her, and he lived with her until she got permission to immigrate to the US. Meanwhile, he got permission to work in the Soviet Union, and after like, a year of reapplying for visas every three months, resident status-- based on being married to a citizen, I assume. When they returned to the US, nothing happened to him. Lee Harvey Oswald had formally denounced the US, gone to the embassy to return his passport, tried to create an international incident, and attempted suicide when the Soviet Union wasn’t going to let him stay. If he has been prosecuted, sanctioned, or something-- I’m not sure what-- the situation was, as far as I know, sui generis, and therefore wouldn’t have any bearing on what happened to other people who lived for an extended time in the USSR. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218/32 "2017-02-09T17:25:02Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Getting to Japan would have been far more difficult. There weren’t any(?) neutral counties conveniently nearby and none which allowed travel to Japan, AFAIK. Note that up to quite close to the end of WWII Japan and the USSR weren’t at war. Travel was quite possible between them. Diplomats and others traveled between them. This often meant a long train ride but it was doable. One alternate route for some neutral party to get to Russia then would be to board a Russian ship (often a former US ship loaned to the USSR) on the US west coast, sail to Vladivostok and then go to Japan. The Russians would not necessarily cooperate with either getting a ride on one of their vessels not leaving Vladivostok to get to Japan but certain diplomats, Red Cross folk, etc. might have done it that way. The idea of former US ships loaded with US made arms intended to be used against Japan’s ally could sail freely between Japanese islands towards Russia is something that always amazed me. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218/33 "2017-02-10T16:24:19Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Note that up to quite close to the end of WWII Japan and the USSR weren’t at war. Travel was quite possible between them. Diplomats and others traveled between them. This often meant a long train ride but it was doable. > > One alternate route for some neutral party to get to Russia then would be to board a Russian ship (often a former US ship loaned to the USSR) on the US west coast, sail to Vladivostok and then go to Japan. The Russians would not necessarily cooperate with either getting a ride on one of their vessels not leaving Vladivostok to get to Japan but certain diplomats, Red Cross folk, etc. might have done it that way. > > The idea of former US ships loaded with US made arms intended to be used against Japan’s ally could sail freely between Japanese islands towards Russia is something that always amazed me. I was referring to a neutral country on the level of Spain, Portugal, Turkey or Sweden where there was trade between the countries. As I posted, any Allied citizens would have been interned by Germany but it may have been possible to at least reach the border. I don’t actually know if there was any trade between Japan and the Soviet Union in the early part of the war. Certainly by the end the blockade was complete. There were diplomats traveling between the two countries during the war. Ambassador Sato traveled there in 1942. He was involved in the attempted use of in 1945 diplomacy to get the Soviets to help Japan end the war in more favorable terms. However, you are mistaken in the US made arms could not freely travel to Russia. [Quote] ([Pacific Route - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Route)) > [@](#): > > Due to this neutrality the goods could be moved only in Soviet-flagged ships, and, as they were inspected by the Japanese, could not include war materials. The route was therefore used to transport foods, raw materials and non-military goods such as lorries and other road vehicles, railway locomotives and rolling stock. At any rate, my point was that ordinary US citizens would not have been able to have easily (or even possibly) found a way to have gotten to a neutral country and then on to Japan. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218/34 "2017-02-10T16:47:43Z")
I did find [a reference](https://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/57jnwq.htm) for how a member of the Red Cross was able to reach Japan during the war. > [@](#): > > In 1943, the ICRC tried to strengthen its delegation in Japan, where it wanted to send Dr Marcel Junod. But Japan kept procrastinating, and it was only in June 1945 that Dr Junod was finally able to start on his journey. He travelled through the USSR, arriving in Manchuria on 1 August 1945. And then from [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Junod#The_Second_World_War_1939-1945), we find that Dr. Junod made it to Tokyo on August 9th. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218/35 "2017-02-10T21:25:07Z")
Thanks the for the correction on arms to Russia, **TokyoBayer**. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218/36 "2017-02-11T15:36:14Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > I don’t actually know if there was any trade between Japan and the Soviet Union in the early part of the war. I did find documentation which confirms my suspicion that there wasn’t. In _The Japanese-Soviet Neutrality Pact: A Diplomatic History 1941-1945_, it relates that there wasn’t any trade. There had been talks of a possible coal for rubber deal, but talks broke down when the Japanese side proposed that the Soviets pick up the rubber in Singapore. > [@ftg](#): > > Thanks the for the correction on arms to Russia, **TokyoBayer**. Sorry, it was a little pedantic because you were essentially right. Although the material was not supposed to include weapons, hundreds of thousands of trucks were shipped to Russia, many of which were used as the platform for the [Katyusha rocket](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyusha_rocket_launcher#/media/File:Katjuscha_1938_Moscow.jpg) so the “correction” wasn’t really necessary. The dynamics during the war between the various countries is fascinating. There had been stories related by historians that the IJN Combined Fleet en route to the attack on Pearl Harbor had been spotted by a Soviet merchant ship, and that the Soviets had not informed the US because of the neutrality pact. That account does seem to be unsubstantiated and almost certainly in error. On occasion, the Soviets leaked information provided by the US to the Japanese when it suited their purposes. Anyway, this is a long ways away from the subject of the thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/during-the-cold-war-was-it-illegal-for-americans-to-move-to-the-ussr/779218.md?page=1)