# Dutch Atheist Priest (Protestant) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 6, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730 "2011-08-06T14:19:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730/1 "2011-08-06T14:19:14Z")
Came across [this article](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14417362) on the BBC news website. The priest in question is a member of the largest protestant church in the Netherlands. > [@](#): > > **Mr Hendrikse describes the Bible’s account of Jesus’s life as a mythological story about a man who may never have existed, even if it is a valuable source of wisdom about how to lead a good life.** > > His book Believing in a Non-Existent God led to calls from more traditionalist Christians for him to be removed. However, a special church meeting decided his views were too widely shared among church thinkers for him to be singled out. > > A study by the Free University of Amsterdam found that one-in-six clergy in the PKN and six other smaller denominations was either agnostic or atheist There is nothing new about the idea I’ve bolded of course, for example [Thomas Jefferson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible) authored a version of the bible with all the supernatural elements of Jesus’s life removed. No virgin birth, no miracles, no resurrection, all in accordance with his Deist beliefs. I think it makes the point that christianity is both a religion and a cultural ideology. An atheist priest makes no sense from a religious standpoint, but is perfectly reasonable from a cultural point of view. It’s possible to consider christian values to be important without believing in God. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730/2 "2011-08-06T14:31:12Z")
Christianity as a culture as well as a religion, along the same lines as Judaism, perhaps? I do believe that there _are_ some tenets among Christianity’s tenants that are pretty much universal-one of these being belief that Jesus is the son of God and sits at his right hand. Am I wrong in thinking this? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730/3 "2011-08-06T18:25:23Z")
Is Christianity in Europe that much more casual than Christianity in the States? ---
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730/4 "2011-08-06T18:26:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is Christianity in Europe that much more casual than Christianity in the States? Oh fuck yes. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730/5 "2011-08-07T02:36:35Z")
If he does not believe in God, that shouldn’t his conscience direct him to resign his office? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730/6 "2011-08-07T03:33:00Z")
It seems to me that without the supernatural elements, Christ was just a crazy man. His messages of peace and how to treat your fellow man are all predicated on entering the Kingdom of Heaven and being right in the eyes of God. If it matters, I am an atheist. I suppose I’m an atheist even if it doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730/7 "2011-08-07T03:38:03Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > If he does not believe in God, that shouldn’t his conscience direct him to resign his office? That is the topic of discussion. If he feels he is in a position to help people, and he believes in Christianity’s practices but not in the divinity, maybe _his_ conscience is clear. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730/8 "2011-08-07T11:02:31Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > If he does not believe in God, that shouldn’t his conscience direct him to resign his office? If he’s open about his non-belief and his “flock” doesn’t seem to mind (with many of them probably agreeing with his position), why should he resign? ETA: Personally, I don’t think this sort of atheistic Christianity is doing much good, but in my estimation it might connect very well with a significant portion of Dutch “Christians”. ---
**Author:** ![StephenG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@StephenG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StephenG)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730/9 "2011-08-07T12:52:48Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > If he does not believe in God, that shouldn’t his conscience direct him to resign his office? **Superfluous Parentheses** (great name!) got it. From the article in the OP, > [@](#): > > His book Believing in a Non-Existent God led to calls from more traditionalist Christians for him to be removed. However, a special church meeting decided his views were too widely shared among church thinkers for him to be singled out. I’m interpreting “church thinkers” as “vocal members of the larger religious organization”, but the article goes on to quote his pastor and a parishioner who agree with, and welcome, his views. I find the article personally disturbing, but it’s definitely an interesting read. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730/10 "2011-08-07T14:17:53Z")
I’m always pleased to find more openly atheist clergy and religious people, especially the charming surprise with which it always seems to be greeted by the press and by non-religious people. I hope this becomes much more common, and not worth reporting in most instances. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730/11 "2011-08-07T17:35:23Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > I’m always pleased to find more openly atheist clergy and religious people, especially the charming surprise with which it always seems to be greeted by the press and by non-religious people. I hope this becomes much more common, and not worth reporting in most instances. I must admit that while the religious are obviously free to organize their religions in whatever way they see fit as long as they’re not harming anyone, I’m still fairly amazed that I know almost as many lapsed seminary students (including a few strong anti-theists) and atheistic/agnostic pastors (including one that kept his non-belief almost a complete secret till his death) as I do “strong” theists. Here in the Netherlands, “somethingism” seems to be the prevalent view amongst official Christians and many of the non-affiliated. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730/12 "2011-08-07T19:57:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Christianity as a culture as well as a religion, along the same lines as Judaism, perhaps? I do believe that there _are_ some tenets among Christianity’s tenants that are pretty much universal-one of these being belief that Jesus is the son of God and sits at his right hand. > Am I wrong in thinking this? Are you inviting a debate? In IMHO? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730/13 "2011-08-07T21:13:31Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > I must admit that while the religious are obviously free to organize their religions in whatever way they see fit as long as they’re not harming anyone, I’m still fairly amazed that I know almost as many lapsed seminary students (including a few strong anti-theists) and atheistic/agnostic pastors (including one that kept his non-belief almost a complete secret till his death) as I do “strong” theists. Here in the Netherlands, “somethingism” seems to be the prevalent view amongst official Christians and many of the non-affiliated. Being a 1950 baby Dutch immigrant in Canada of parents who were member of the Netherlands Reformed Church (Liberated) known as the Canadian Reformed Church in Canada, I believed for many years that the Dutch were the most religious uptight devout fundamentalist righteous God loving church goers (twice on Sunday) in the world. What I’m reading today about religion in the Netherlands is no longer a surprise but it still amazes me that my Dutch cousins are so liberated. Actually liberated. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730/14 "2011-08-07T21:31:45Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Are you inviting a debate? In IMHO? :dubious: Mild debate is welcome in IMHO. If it looks like it is going to get hot n’ heavy later on, it may get moved. Religion-based threads usually get moved to Great Debates based on how fast the topic has gotten heated in the past…but I’m not sure this particular religious issue has come up before, so I’m giving it the benefit of the doubt. Seems to be working out so far. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730/15 "2011-08-07T21:57:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is Christianity in Europe that much more casual than Christianity in the States? I dare say there’s a spectrum of thought and belief on both sides of the Atlantic. As **Alka Seltzer** says, there’s nothing really new in what Mr Hendrikse’s saying – similar beliefs have been held (with varying degrees of discretion) by some priests in the Church of England (for example) for around a century or so. The idea that Christ may not have been divine, or even have existed, but that the teachings of Christianity nevertheless have value, may perhaps be a minority view, but it has been a part of serious mainstream religious thought for a good long time, now. The difference here, as I see it, is that, rather than being a private matter of faith, in this case it’s being used by a nominally christian church as part of its marketing message. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-atheist-priest-protestant/591730/16 "2011-08-08T12:17:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Christianity as a culture as well as a religion, along the same lines as Judaism, perhaps? I do believe that there _are_ some tenets among Christianity’s tenants that are pretty much universal-one of these being belief that Jesus is the son of God and sits at his right hand. > Am I wrong in thinking this? Some people describe themselves as Cultural Christians to indicate they identify with Christian values and culture while not actually believing in Christ’s divinity. I think that’s the best term to use to describe someone like Mr Hendrikse. > [@StephenG](#): > > I find the article personally disturbing, but it’s definitely an interesting read. Why do you find it disturbing please?