# Dutch Catholic sexual abuse of instititionalized boys? How about murder? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 28, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586 "2012-06-28T15:25:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/1 "2012-06-28T15:25:19Z")
Remember that Dutch scandal debated [in this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=645763)? A boy, vicim of sexual abuse in an Catholic institution, speaks up. The Church tries to silence him by labelign him as “ insane, gay and seductive”. The treatment? Castration. You might think that the Catholic church wouldn’t get any worse then castrating victims of sexual abuse and hushing it up. Well, it just has. How does Catholic sanctioned murder sound? Dutch papers today list evidence for at least 37 mentally handicapped boys in that same Catholic institution, in the same period as the castration case, boys who have been murdered. That would have been in 1952-1954, by a brother Andreas, known as “ Brother Syringe”. He and his 20 collegues, all Catholic brothers without much education or training, had to care for 450 severly handicapped young patients in what is described as a permanent losing battle against stench, filth, noise and moans of pain. The patients were all over the map; mentally disabled, wild and destructive, or just paralysed, spastic or malformed. When even more patients came in from an even more understaffed institution, “Brother Syringe” took matters in his own hands, sanctioned by the Institutions doctors and management. He used the same poison (luminal) that the Nazis used ten years earlier to kill handicapped children. Brother Andreas, from accounts of co-workers at the time and from his own memoirs, was a religious, faithful and rather dumb man. Not a psychopath. Just a dumb man in a sick, sick institution that had no business caring for mentally disabled children. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/2 "2012-06-28T15:50:20Z")
Horrendous if true, but I would prefer to see a cite preferably from a reputable news source rather than take your word for it. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/3 "2012-06-28T16:01:48Z")
It will take half a day before International news sources will get wind of it. [But](http:// [OM: 37 gehandicapten mogelijk omgebracht in jaren vijftig - NRC](http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2012/06/28/om-37-gehandicapten-mogelijk-omgebracht-in-jaren-vijftig/))[here](http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2012/06/28/bisdom-onthutst-over-mogelijk-ombrengen-zwakzinnigen-gesticht/)[are a couple](http://www.limburger.nl/article/20120625/DOSSIERS/120629778/1001)of Dutch news sources. Oh, it moves faster then I thought: [here](http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/high-child-death-rate-1950s-mental-institution-investigated) [are some](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddb98Fmyh-8) [sources](http://dearkitty1.wordpress.com/2012/06/28/catholic-friars-murder-of-children-covered-up/)in English. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/4 "2012-06-28T16:11:41Z")
Holy Fuck. That’s fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/5 "2012-06-28T16:34:40Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Holy Fuck. That’s fucked up. Yeah. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/6 "2012-06-28T16:43:49Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Brother Andreas, from accounts of co-workers at the time and from his own memoirs, was a religious, faithful and rather dumb man. Not a psychopath. Just a dumb man in a sick, sick institution that had no business caring for mentally disabled children. Brother Eichmann? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/7 "2012-06-28T16:53:58Z")
At least they’re making amend by excommunicating Hemlock Society members. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/8 "2012-06-28T17:02:53Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > He The patients were all over the map; mentally disabled, wild and destructive, or just paralysed, spastic or malformed. > When even more patients came in from an even more understaffed institution, “Brother Syringe” took matters in his own hands, sanctioned by the Institutions doctors and management. He used the same poison (luminal) that the Nazis used ten years earlier to kill handicapped children. Of course, it would be a completely different matter, if the boys had been fetuses whom doctors determined would be born mentally disabled, etc. No killing **those,** my son! _Anathema maranatha!_ ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/9 "2012-06-28T17:23:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Of course, it would be a completely different matter, if the boys had been fetuses whom doctors determined would be born mentally disabled, etc. No killing **those,** my son! _Anathema maranatha!_ Yes this is a thread about abortion! _rolls eyes so much, the smiley doesn’t suffice_ The story is terrible… I can’t even imagine what else we might find out. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/10 "2012-06-28T18:30:36Z")
We might find out that men who put on the collar sometimes do so because they know The Pope will protect them as they use their cocks to plow through an unlimited supply of prepubescent boys. Oh wait. We knew this already. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/11 "2012-06-28T18:37:57Z")
It’s all good. They weren’t real Christians. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/12 "2012-06-28T19:22:05Z")
Love to believe that. I’m Jewquapalian. Jewish / Quaker / Episcopalian. My impression of a good Christian does not include child rape. ---
**Author:** ![Deser2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dfb087/32.png) [@Deser2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deser2)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/13 "2012-06-28T19:39:19Z")
> [@polar\_bear](#): > > Yes this is a thread about abortion! _rolls eyes so much, the smiley doesn’t suffice_ > > The story is terrible… I can’t even imagine what else we might find out. I think he might have been commenting on the conflict between being against abortion (aka the destruction of a fetus) but being Ok with what is indicated in the story (aka the destruction of grown person). And I’d have to agree with his sentiment. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/14 "2012-06-30T06:56:15Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Love to believe that. I’m Jewquapalian. Jewish / Quaker / Episcopalian. > > My impression of a good Christian does not include child rape. I guess you’re going to need to work on your impression, because it not only needs to include rape but murder too. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/15 "2012-06-30T20:21:45Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > doctors and management. He used the same poison (luminal) that the Nazis used ten years earlier to kill handicapped children. I don’t think luminal was used much by Nazis although it probably was used in some cases. In fact, phenobarbital (which luminal is) is a very humane way to go. It is the recommend method in the [peaceful pill handbook](http://www.peacefulpillhandbook.com/). I thought that Euthansia was tolerated for children in the Netherlands in certain circumstances nowadays? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/16 "2012-06-30T22:10:19Z")
Legal and constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/17 "2012-06-30T22:23:43Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > My impression of a good Christian does not include child rape. “Suffer the little children to come unto Me . . .” ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/18 "2012-07-10T18:09:31Z")
Here’s [another source in English](http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/multiple-deaths-boys%E2%80%99-home-were-no-accident). Strange that the news hasn’t been picked up by the larger US news networks. > [@](#): > > The spike in deaths … came to light last year when the Deetman Commission, which was investigating sexual abuse in the Dutch Roman Catholic Church, found suspicious evidence in the archives of the diocese of Roermond. The commission turned over the case to the public prosecutor’s office. > > Amid a public outcry, the prosecutor launched a fact-finding inquiry in May 2012, putting six investigators on the case. It was announced at that time that no criminal prosecutions would be possible. > > As the story gripped the country, Nico van Hout, former head nurse at St Joseph’s, told investigators from the prosecution office about a conversation he had when he was hired in 1969. An elderly nurse, a monk named Augustinus, took him by the arm to the infirmary and showed him the coffin storage rooms and the “death room.” > > False death certificates > Augustinus claimed his predecessor had personally killed 20 of the boys “to put them out of their suffering,” Van Hout said. > > Nico van Hout told the prosecutors he then went to the staff medical doctor at St Joseph’s and confronted him with the story. The doctor told him the situation had been “a real headache.” When Van Hout asked him what he meant, he said that “you could write ‘heart failure’ on a few of the death certificates, but you couldn’t keep on filling in the same cause of death.” > > Aside from the deaths by overdose, the prosecution office’s report also cited documentation of rampant physical and sexual abuse by the brothers at Saint Joseph’s. Less severely disabled boys were slammed against walls, choked, and hit in the face with a ring of keys. At night they were put to work in a makeshift factory in the cellar where they produced light bulbs for Philips. > > Widespread cover-up > The Dutch authorities at different levels were aware of the deaths, exploitation of children and other abuses as early as 1954, but none reported them to the police or prosecution service. The prosecutor’s report says the facts were covered up by successive directors and management of the Saint Joseph’s home, superiors of the Brothers of the Holy Joseph, the state labour and public health inspectors, and the state child protection authority. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/19 "2012-07-10T18:14:05Z")
> [@Confused dart cum](#): > > I thought that Euthansia was tolerated for children in the Netherlands in certain circumstances nowadays? Yes, the [Groningen Protocol.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=368690). Babies have to have a severe illness with unbearable suffering and no chance of improvement for doctors to even consider euthanasia. Situations that lead to de facto euthanasia in quite a few other countries too. The protocol spells out how to ask other medical opinions and how to decide. About 10-15 such cases happen a year in a population of 17 million people. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586/20 "2012-07-10T18:25:22Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Here’s [another source in English](http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/multiple-deaths-boys%E2%80%99-home-were-no-accident). Strange that the news hasn’t been picked up by the larger US news networks. I just did some Googling and found nothing in the American press, but surprisingly to me, [I found the story in the _Irish Times_](http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2012/0703/1224319264498.html). Really, that’s about the last place I would expect to see news so critical of the church. I guess the honeymoon is really over between Ireland and the church. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-catholic-sexual-abuse-of-instititionalized-boys-how-about-murder/626586.md?page=2)