# Dutch MP denied entry to UK **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314 "2009-02-11T02:34:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/21 "2009-02-11T14:25:33Z")
This whole fiasco is indicative of how thin skinned people are these days, I say let him in and have his say. One of the things I currently dislike about the UK, and one of the reasons that I eventually hope to leave, is that there seems to be no real freedom of speech here anymore. Political correctness and militant religious groups (muslim and christian alike) stifle all honest debate and leave the door open for groups like the BNP. Whether our politicians will accept it or not there is a fear in the wider community about the islamisation of our society and this issue should be addressed openly and not swept under the carpet. As an aside I hope that Lord Ahmed serves time for his crime and is stripped of his position as I hope Lord Archer and Lord Black are too (just to show I am not partisan). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/22 "2009-02-11T14:32:18Z")
> [@](#): > > The Secretary of State is satisfied that your statements about Muslims and their beliefs, as expressed in your film Fitna and elsewhere, would threaten community harmony and therefore public security in the UK." “We think that if we let you in, those people you accuse of not fitting in to civilized Western society will riot. That just goes to prove how wrong you are.” ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/23 "2009-02-11T14:38:07Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > “We think that if we let you in, those people you accuse of not fitting in to civilized Western society will riot. That just goes to prove how wrong you are.” To be fair we use this ridiculous power to ban all sorts of odious people. David Duke for one and assorted Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/24 "2009-02-11T14:42:29Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Which just goes to prove my point - the British weren’t afraid of rioting in the past. You survived them through the proper application of law and order, not by appeasing the mob. This is just silly, inexact and made to fit your preconceived notions. I find accusations of cowardice particularly stupid and insulting. Discretion is the better part of valor and those who accuse others of cowardice are generally pigheaded morons who do not understand anything and believe anything can be solved with just being pigheaded about what one wants. For all these years we have had to put up with the Bushistas accusing anyone who didn’t agree with their aggressive policies of being cowards, appeasers, etc. (See how trheir policies worked out.) One can think intransigence is not the best policy and not be a coward. Like one can think pigheadedness is always the best policy and not be entirely stupid about it. I can’t think of any instance but I suppose it is possible. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/25 "2009-02-11T14:47:22Z")
> [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](#): > > BTW He is actually planning on going anyway, so it will be interesting to see what will happen. Maybe they will do what America did with Cat Stevens: > [@](#): > > [Cat Stevens - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_Stevens) > > On 21 September 2004, Yusuf Islam was travelling on a United Airlines flight from London to Washington, en route to a meeting with singer Dolly Parton, who had recorded “Peace Train” several years earlier and was planning to include another Cat Stevens song on an upcoming album.[39] While the plane was in flight, the Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System flagged his name as being on a no fly list. Customs agents alerted the United States Transportation Security Administration, which then diverted his flight to Bangor, Maine, where he was detained by agents from Department of Homeland Security.[50] > > The following day, Yusuf Islam was deported back to the United Kingdom. The Transportation Security Administration claimed there were "concerns of ties he may have to potential terrorist-related activities. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/26 "2009-02-11T15:31:14Z")
It would be interesting to see what happens now that the Visa Waiver Scheme is operating. Assuming Cat Stevens applied and was accepted by the system would he still be turned away? I know that in the small print it says that entry to the USA is still subject to the border guards, but it would be amusing to see what happened if he did travel. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/27 "2009-02-11T15:58:48Z")
The so-called “visa waiver” program was already in effect in 2004. Now you have to go a few days before you travel to a US Gov site and enter your information. They can call it “Visa waiver” but it is more an “online expedited visa”. > [@](#): > > [http://cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id\_visa/esta/](http://cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/esta/) > > International visitors to the U.S. from Visa Waiver Program countries are now required to apply for travel authorization online. But don’t call it “visa”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/28 "2009-02-11T16:01:41Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Christ on a bike. > > Words fail me. > > Are you trying to be needlessly racist and insulting or do you simply do it by accident as you speak without thinking? Hmm, feed or not to feed that is the question. How could you construe what I wrote as rascist. Declan ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/29 "2009-02-11T16:10:35Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Hmm, feed or not to feed that is the question. > > How could you construe what I wrote as rascist. > > Declan By reading it probably. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/30 "2009-02-11T16:11:17Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > How could you construe what I wrote as rascist. > [@You](#): > > The thing is that Euros are basically facists at heart, […] I think it’s _technically_ not racist. Badly spelled and offensive, yes. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/31 "2009-02-11T16:13:57Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > How could you construe what I wrote as rascist. > > Declan It isn’t racist. It’s a very stupid and ignorant statement though. The kind of thing that has no place is GD. 300+ million people are fascist? It makes you look like you don’t have a clue about Europe or what a fascist actually is. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/32 "2009-02-11T16:29:26Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > By reading it probably. Then wear glasses Declan ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/33 "2009-02-11T16:30:33Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > It isn’t racist. It’s a very stupid and ignorant statement though. The kind of thing that has no place is GD. > > 300+ million people are fascist? It makes you look like you don’t have a clue about Europe or what a fascist actually is. Or maybe i said facist at heart ,not facist. Clue about facism and Euros, hmm let me read a few history books. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/34 "2009-02-11T16:34:07Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Or maybe i said facist at heart ,not facist. And that makes it better how? > [@](#): > > Clue about facism and Euros, hmm let me read a few history books. Yeah you do that. And I’m a European. A euro is a coin, thank you very much. And it’s “fascist”. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/35 "2009-02-11T16:36:29Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Then wear glasses > > Declan The thing is, Jews are basically parasites at heart. The thing is, Africans are basically savages at heart. The thing is, Arabs are basically terrorists at heart. The thing is, Australians are basically criminals at heart. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/36 "2009-02-11T16:37:33Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Or maybe i said facist at heart ,not facist. Clue about facism and Euros, hmm let me read a few history books. > > Declan Be sure not to miss the ~20million that died fighting it along side your countrymen and the social democracies that grew up after WWII all over Western Europe. Fascist at heart? Cool, so I’m just one at heart but that a real one. That’s nice to know. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/37 "2009-02-11T17:05:38Z")
Is a facist someone with a face fetish? I mean, I’m European, and I like having a face, and I also suppose it’s nice other people have faces. Does that make me a pervert? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/38 "2009-02-11T17:11:28Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Be sure not to miss the ~20million that died fighting it along side your countrymen and the social democracies that grew up after WWII all over Western Europe. Or the tiny handful of us who were born after 1939. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/39 "2009-02-11T17:12:22Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Hmm, feed or not to feed that is the question. > > How could you construe what I wrote as rascist. > > Declan Look into what race means. A race can be defined in many ways, including people of similar nationality or cultural history. As such it is perfectly acceptable to refer to the French race, the German race etc. You effectively said that members of those races (Europe being a collection of races) are fascists at heart, something that is clearly not true as well as being abusive, insulting and prejudiced. Where I come from that is known as racism. Your mileage may vary. I’m a bit embarrassed for you that I had to explain this. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314/40 "2009-02-11T17:12:37Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > And that makes it better how? > > Yeah you do that. And I’m a European. A euro is a coin, thank you very much. > > And it’s “fascist”. Yup, I thought something was wrong with the spelling, but nothing jumped out at me. Anyways, in your travels and aquaintances you have never heard call for more harsher measures against what ever the down trodden de jour, by ordinary folk who just work for a living? Do you think that Wilder just happens along for no good reason, for shits and giggles, he is going to going to attract a following? The man is a societal reaction to something happening in your country. That other countrys have produced similar type individuals means its now a euro centric phenomenom. Over here we call phelps, duke, and zundel complete loony tunes, granted more will appear but i have no doubt that they will be smacked down by us the people, not the govt. Declan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dutch-mp-denied-entry-to-uk/485314.md?page=3)