# DVD ripping without a DVD burner? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 3, 2003, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257 "2003-09-03T02:44:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/21 "2003-09-04T10:44:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Futile Gesture \* > \*\*I get spam telling me that I can copy DVDs to CDs. Just by clicking on this link. > > That alone is enough to tell me the whole thing > > -is legally dubious I can’t see why. What is “legally dubious”? > [@](#): > > -doesn’t work as advertised I have ripped DVDs to CDs. What do you mean it does not work as advertised? > [@](#): > > -is a rip-off Why is it a ripoff? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/22 "2003-09-04T12:59:34Z")
[www.dvdrhelp.com](http://www.dvdrhelp.com) This is the place to go for all your answers. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/23 "2003-09-04T13:05:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*I can’t see why. What is “legally dubious”? I have ripped DVDs to CDs. What do you mean it does not work as advertised? Why is it a ripoff? \*\* The answer to all your questions is contained in my first sentence. Third word. Call me prejudiced if you like. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/24 "2003-09-04T13:53:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Futile Gesture \* > \*\*The answer to all your questions is contained in my first sentence. Third word. > > Call me prejudiced if you like. \*\* You are prejudiced and have provided no support for your asertions. I have received spam advertising a lot of legitimate products and that does not reflect on the products themselves but on the spammer. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/25 "2003-09-04T17:49:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Futile Gesture \* > \*\*I get spam telling me that I can copy DVDs to CDs. B] And I get spam pestering me to refinance my mortgage. Does that mean all refinancing is a scam? The fact is that you can rip DVDs and encode to (S)VCD. I’ve done it probably more times than I can count. I don’t, however, use the all-in-one tools for it. It can be accomplished entirely with freeware and a bit of reading. You’ll get better results that way, too, since you have control over every facet of the process. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > I find VCS have about the same quality as broadcast TV and I would not call that poor. The most frequent comparison I’ve seen, and one I happen to agree with, is to VHS. Broadcast looks a bit better, IMHO. SVCD, if you had to compare it to something, looks about as good as laserdisc. > [@](#): > > VCD rates average about 9 megabytes per minute (+/- 15%?) so you can get over an hour on one VCD, about 1:15. Longer films have to be split but I don’t find this a major problem. No plus or minus. VCD specifies CBR at 1150kbps with a MP2 audio stream of 224kbps. There is no wiggle room. If you stick to the specs, a VCD will always fit exactly 80 minutes. > [@](#): > > SVCD take about twice the disk space of a VCD which means a longer movie would take 3 -4 disks. This is the one that varies. The SVCD spec supports VBR. If you used the maximum SVCD bitrate, you’d be able to fit 40 minutes on one disc. I find I get more than acceptable results from VBR at about 1600-1800kbps. At 1600, you can fit about an hour on each disc. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ftg \* > Both use MPEG-1&2 encoding No. VCD uses MPEG-1. SVCD uses MPEG-2. DVD also uses MPEG-2, but at a much higher bitrate (think 6000-10000kbps instead of 2500) and with support for more audio formats and other extras. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/26 "2003-09-04T18:09:29Z")
I would recommend getting a DVD burner. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/27 "2003-09-04T20:58:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > I would recommend getting a DVD burner. And I would recommend The Lord of the Rings but that hardly is an answer to the question asked in the OP which is whether DVDs can be copied to CDR, is it? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by neutron star \* > No plus or minus. VCD specifies CBR at 1150kbps with a MP2 audio stream of 224kbps. There is no wiggle room. If you stick to the specs, a VCD will always fit exactly 80 minutes. I was giving a figure off the top of my head and the +/- was supposed to mean it was an approximation. At any rate, (ha ha, get it?) while it is tru that the spec is for a fixed bitrate, you can modify it up or down a bit and AFAIK it makes no difference and players will play it just the same. DaVIDEo allows you to adjust the bitrate of VCDs. . . which is strange because it does not allow you to adjust almost anything else. What program do you use to convert? ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/28 "2003-09-04T21:13:22Z")
Once you change the bitrate of a VCD, it is no longer a VCD. VCD is simply an MPEG-1 file that adheres to certain specifications. A MPEG burned in the same manner as a VCD, but not technically VCD compliant (e.g. bitrate off by a few kbps or use of VBR instead of CBR), is often refered to as XVCD, although that is not an official term. Not all DVD players that play VCDs will play XVCDs. Some just play VCD and that’s it. Others will play some XVCDs, but not others. Still other players will play just about anything you throw at them, no matter how far from standards you veer (within reason). As far as encoding goes, I swear by TMPGenc. Nobody does MPEG-1 better. You can, of course, use TMPGenc to encode video outside of VCD specs. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/29 "2003-09-04T21:30:38Z")
I said > [@](#): > > Both use MPEG-1&2 encoding;… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by neutron star \* > No. VCD uses MPEG-1. SVCD uses MPEG-2. I’m sorry you misunderstood my statement. That is exactly what I was saying, but merely in a condensed way. I was contrasting that _group_ to MPEG-4ish systems. Which uses what was not part of my point. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/30 "2003-09-04T21:57:22Z")
Sorry. I misinterpreted your sentence. Makes more sense now. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/31 "2003-09-05T08:10:22Z")
**neutron star** , I have not run into any problems playing VCDs recorded at slightly different (but constant) bit rates but, OTOH I have not tried _that_ many different machines. I have (as per your advice in an earlier thread) TMPGenc but I cannot get it to read DVDs so I am using Davideo which has a bunch of problems all of its own. The last one to appear is the sound becoming choppy. How do I get TMPGenc to read DVDs? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/32 "2003-09-05T15:23:22Z")
BTW, and while we are on the topic of the VCD standard, it is defined as: PAL: 352 x 288 @ 25 fps (Aspect ratio = 1.22) NTSC: 352 x 240 @ 30 fps (Aspect ratio = 1.46) Now, to bring the aspect ratio to 1.33 the player needs to expand the PAL picture horizontally by about 10% or to contract the NTSC picture horizontally by about 10%. If you watch the files in media player you can tell the difference. I have Fawlty Towers on VCD and if you play it in Media Player John Cleese is even thinner and taller. I suppose the players for TV do this automatically but is there a player program for the computer which will do this? Not that it makes a huge difference but it would be nice to get people in the right size. Another question: What program do you use to read the DVDs and then convert them to MPGE1? ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/33 "2003-09-05T18:41:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*I have (as per your advice in an earlier thread) TMPGenc but I cannot get it to read DVDs so I am using Davideo which has a bunch of problems all of its own. The last one to appear is the sound becoming choppy. How do I get TMPGenc to read DVDs? \*\* Frameserving. Preferably via [AVIsynth](http://www.avisynth.org/) (as it supports YUY2, making for a faster conversion, since you don’t have to move back and forth between colorspaces), but VirtualDub also makes a decent frameserver. You’ll also need to make a DVD2AVI project file. [This](http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/d2a-svcd.htm) guide is pretty close to how I do it. The only major difference is that I use AVIsynth instead of Vdub for frameserving. > [@](#): > > If you watch the files in media player you can tell the difference. I have Fawlty Towers on VCD and if you play it in Media Player John Cleese is even thinner and taller. I suppose the players for TV do this automatically but is there a player program for the computer which will do this? Not that it makes a huge difference but it would be nice to get people in the right size. Hmm. The only time I’ve had trouble with aspect ratios in WMP is with SVCDs. Try playing your videos in WinDVD or PowerDVD and see if that makes a difference. I’m not positive about PowerDVD, but I know WinDVD will play MPEG-1 stuff just fine. > [@](#): > > Another question: What program do you use to read the DVDs and then convert them to MPGE1? Sorry, I’m not quite sure what you’re asking here. Could you be more specific? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/34 "2003-09-05T23:30:20Z")
As I said in the older thread, I feel quite lost and wasting a lot of time advancing very little. This is quite complex. Regarding the Display Aspect Ratio of MPEG files prepared for VCDs, if you just play it with WMP then you get the square pixels and the display is deformed. How can WMP know it is supposed to expand or contract the image horizontally? The VCD probably has that information somewhere in the structure but WMP is just getting an MPEG file of X by Y pixels. Same thing if you play the plain MPEG file with any other player. Or am I wrong? I have downloaded and installed Gordian Knot but I am still fumbling around with it. When I click on the first tab and then the bottom “open” (to select FPS etc) I get an error that “you have to put MPEG2DEC3.dll into your AVISYNTH plugin directory”. Where the heck is my avisynth plugin directory and why didn’t the installtion put the dll there to begin with. BTW I am also getting an error telling me the installation replaced the WINASPI dll with an older one. I tried converting a VOB + IFO image from my hard disk and I got no sound and could not convert the frame rate. . . this takes time to learn. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/35 "2003-09-06T00:16:09Z")
I downloaded and installed avisynth and put the dll in the plugin folder so that’s taken care of. Let me fumble around with Gordian Knot and see what I can do. I think I need to convert VOB to AVI and then AVI to MPEG. is that right? ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/36 "2003-09-06T01:32:30Z")
Sort of, but not quite. I’ll explain in a minute. As for the DAR, I think that you’re correct about the number being embedded in the MPEG somewhere, but I’m honestly not sure. I do, however, find that SVCDs played in WMP look square, but they have their proper DAR on a standalone DVD player or in DVD player software. Maybe your encoder is screwing up your MPEGs somehow. I’m afraid I can’t offer you any advice on GKnot, as I’ve never used it. The file you’ll create with DVD2AVI is just a pointer to the VOB files. It’s less than 1MB. [Here](http://www.divx-digest.com/articles/dvd2avi.html) is how to make a DVD2AVI project file. I’d advise to ignore the audio extraction step and instead use the BeSweet method from the Doom9 link. Once you make the project file (\*.d2v), you could just load it in TMPGenc, but then you’d have to deal with TMPGenc’s tools for IVTC, cropping, resizing, deinterlacing, and such. These tools aren’t as good as those found elsewhere, so you use AVIsynth, a powerful and versitile video postprocessor and frameserver. You create the AVIsynth script (\*.avs) with any text editor. It’ll look something like this: ```auto LoadPlugin("F:\a\MPEG2D~1.DLL") // Load AVIsynth MPEG-2 plugin LoadPlugin("F:\a\decomb.dll") // Load Decomb plugin for IVTC mpeg2source("F: est.D2V") // DVD2AVI project file you just created Telecide() // Function of the decomb plugin Decimate(5) // Function of the decomb plugin BicubicResize(352,240,0,0.6) // Resize Trim(0,77808) //Includes only the video between frames 0 and 77808 ``` The decomb filter will perform inverse [telecine](http://www.lukesvideo.com/telecining1.html) (IVTC) on your video. It also has excellent [deinterlacing functions](http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/capture/postprocessing_avisynth.html) (other good AVIsynth instructions on that link, too). ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/37 "2003-09-06T01:39:14Z")
Damn, sorry for screwing up the width of the thread. I forgot to mention, when referencing files and directories in the AVIsynth script, always adhere to the old 8+3 naming conventions (e.g. - C:\PROGRA~\AVISYN~1.5PL\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2D~1.DLL ). ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/38 "2003-09-06T19:00:35Z")
I am progressing little by little but it takes an enormous amount of time to do anything. It seems Gordian Knot is just an interface which encompasses several programs which can be used directly as well. What I am doing right now is: Use DVD Decrypter on the laptop (it is the slow laptop which has the DVD drive) to transfer the VOB files to the laptop Hard disk. This takes about 1X time. Transfer the files from laptop to (faster) home computer: 0.5 X Use DVD2AVI to convert to Avi. I get a separate Audio file. Edit the audio file to increase audio level (it is always too low). Use TMPGenc to create VCD - MPEG1 file Burn VCD. In the end, for one hour of video we are talking several hours of process (although I can just leave things running) – if everything goes well. Several times the audio or the video did not come out right and I had to start all over again. I guess I’ll get better at this as I make progress but for now it is pretty frustrating and quite a learning curve. And, my initial interest was to transfer my personal video tapes to VCD but i am not even close to being able to do that. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/39 "2003-09-06T21:01:31Z")
Yeah, you’ll get better and things will go faster and smoother. Your DVD-ROM drive sounds like a big bottleneck in the process. I just got a Lite-On 16x DVD-ROM for $30, and it consistently rips at 8x. You should get one of those to throw in your desktop. My DVDs take less than 10 minutes to rip. One good program you could try is DVD2SVCD. It does the audio, makes a DVD2AVI file, and generates an AVIsynth file, then loads that in TMPGenc for you. It’s not very flexible, though. What you can do is let DVD2SVCD run up to the point where it spawns the encoder, then kill both programs. Now take the AVIsynth script DVD2SVCD generated, edit if you want, and load it in TMPGenc. Now you’re free to encode it however you like. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257/40 "2003-09-07T22:43:00Z")
**neutron star** , suddenly a question occurs to me:Shouldnt it be that DVD2AVI (at that point of the conversion) I should get a choice of what subtitles (if any) and what language soundtrack I want? Another thing I am not clear about is how the wide screen format works. I have been messing with that but I am confused. Is it that the MPG file has the same number of horizontal pixels and the player somehow knows to change the ratio? The truth is that up until now I have not done anything useful except, maybe learn a few concepts and ideas. The process is time consuming and something always seems to go wrong before it is completed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dvd-ripping-without-a-dvd-burner/199257.md?page=3)