# Dying doesn't make shitty poetry profound **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 2, 2006, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072 "2006-05-02T06:46:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Acqua\_Minerale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f6c823/32.png) [@Acqua\_Minerale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acqua_Minerale)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/1 "2006-05-02T06:46:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Oprah Winfrey made a rare public appearance to honor her “angel friend” — late teen poet and peace activist Mattie Stepanek. > ADVERTISEMENT > > “Mattie lived the biggest, greatest life of anyone I’ve ever known. He lived his life with the light of love, and each of us has the power to do that in our own way,” Winfrey told 200 people gathered Sunday at Borders books on State Street. Stop honoring this kid’s poetry and peace work. It sucked. His views on peace were naïve. Basically, little Mattie was full of shit and the fact that he was dying did not change that. The world is not a better place because of work. Sure it sad when a child is sick and dying, but that doesn’t mean they have anything to say. Is there any bullshit Oprah won’t embrace? A little of his shit. Wait, I his heartsong: > [@](#): > > FOR OUR WORLD > We need to stop. > Just stop. > Stop for a moment. > Before anybody > Says or does anything > That may hurt anyone else. > We need to be silent. > Just silent. > Heart Silent for a moment. > Before we forever lose > The blessing of songs > That grow in our hearts. > We need to notice. > Just notice. [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060501/ap\_en\_tv/people\_winfrey](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060501/ap_en_tv/people_winfrey) > **[Peace is Possible - Mattie J.T. Stepanek Foundation](https://mattieonline.com/)** > > We hope that MattieOnline.com inspires neighbors around the block and around the world to celebrate and share a message of hope and peace. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/2 "2006-05-02T06:48:15Z")
Pretty decent poetry for a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/3 "2006-05-02T06:51:41Z")
Dying doesn’t make shitty music (or any other form of art) profound, but it remains a very effective marketing gimmick. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/4 "2006-05-02T06:53:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Dying doesn’t make shitty music (or any other form of art) profound, but it remains a very effective marketing gimmick. Dude, now that’s dedication to making a buck! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/5 "2006-05-02T06:57:31Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Dude, now that’s dedication to making a buck! 😉 It’s the best thing that ever happened to many a career! ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/6 "2006-05-02T06:58:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Sure it sad when a child is sick and dying, but that doesn’t mean they have anything to say. Wow. 😕 Y’know, I personally think that anybody who is dying probably has a **hell of a lot to say**. And they can say it in any damned format that they like, whether it’s shitty adolescent poetry, or graffiti on the back of the hospital dunny door. _Some_ people however should be censored for their lack of human understanding. Wow. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/7 "2006-05-02T06:59:52Z")
[The Onion speaks](http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27621) ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/8 "2006-05-02T07:13:00Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Wow. 😕 > > Y’know, I personally think that anybody who is dying probably has a **hell of a lot to say**. And they can say it in any damned format that they like, whether it’s shitty adolescent poetry, or graffiti on the back of the hospital dunny door. > > _Some_ people however should be censored for their lack of human understanding. Wow. :mad: Fine. However, that doesn’t mean they have anything to say that relevant to those who don’t know him. Dear God, what a trite, awful poem. Sure, he’s a kid - but that’s why kids don’t freaking get their books published. There’s something disturbingly exploitative about his parents’ managing to make him a celebrity because he has a disease. Ugh, this kind of thing makes me sad for my culture. ---
**Author:** ![Mudshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mudshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mudshark)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/9 "2006-05-02T07:16:13Z")
I think that you are missing the whole point. It isn’t that the child is a good or bad poet, it’s the fact that the CHILD IS DYING, and instead of being a self loathing asshole, he still believes that there is something to look forward to. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/10 "2006-05-02T07:20:56Z")
> [@Acqua Minerale](#): > > Stop honoring this kid’s poetry and peace work. It sucked. His views on peace were naïve. The kid was 13. Exactly how sophisticated is it reasonable to expect a 13 year-old’s views on peace to be? But yeah, the poetry’s really bad. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/11 "2006-05-02T07:28:21Z")
> [@Mudshark](#): > > I think that you are missing the whole point. It isn’t that the child is a good or bad poet, it’s the fact that the CHILD IS DYING, and instead of being a self loathing asshole, he still believes that there is something to look forward to. Good for him. He’s an inspiration to us all. Yay! Rainbows and unicorns! Except his poetry still sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/12 "2006-05-02T07:30:11Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > whether it’s shitty adolescent poetry, or graffiti on the back of the hospital dunny door. What the heck is a dunny door? ---
**Author:** ![Mudshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mudshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mudshark)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/13 "2006-05-02T07:32:28Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Good for him. He’s an inspiration to us all. Yay! Rainbows and unicorns! Except his poetry still sucks. I never said that the poetry was good, I just said that it wasn’t the point. ---
**Author:** ![Mudshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mudshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mudshark)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/14 "2006-05-02T07:35:14Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > What the heck is a dunny door? I think it is a bathroom door. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/15 "2006-05-02T07:39:36Z")
> [@Mudshark](#): > > I never said that the poetry was good, I just said that it wasn’t the point. Well, they’re selling books of his poetry. I have to wonder how much of it was a brave face to make his family feel better . . . according to one of the customer reviews at Amazon, he saw three older siblings die of the disease. I’m not sure when symptoms first show up, but either his family went through godawful trauma - in which case he probably wanted to spare his parents whatever he could - or else his parents decided to crank out more kids after the first couple died from muscular dystrophy, in which case his family’s got to be one big ball of pathology. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/16 "2006-05-02T07:39:59Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Fine. However, that doesn’t mean they have anything to say that relevant to those who don’t know him. Dear God, what a trite, awful poem. Sure, he’s a kid - but that’s why kids don’t freaking get their books published. There’s something disturbingly exploitative about his parents’ managing to make him a celebrity because he has a disease. Ugh, this kind of thing makes me sad for my culture. Now, if you want to talk about the issue of parents and media celebs exploiting his illness etc, I am right with you. My retort was to **Acqua’s** pronouncement that _dying people have nothing to say_. That is what I found objectionable. If Mattie was the poet his parents claim him to be, I personally would be interested in reading his other stuff…the stuff that didn’t make it onto the glurge sites. My feeling is that those writings would be far more real and would provide more insight into the life of a young fella who is about to die…not the world peace shit. The problem is not that young Mattie was a dismal poet, it’s that his parents manipulated the media for their own ends, and provided only those poems that were saccharine-sweet for the Oprah’s etc. I suspect that there were probably a lot more ‘black’ poem/prose writings in his folio that were conveniently left out. Anyway, it still sucks badly when a kid dies, and maybe this is his folk’s way of dealing with it. Whatever gets them through the day, ultimately. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/17 "2006-05-02T09:45:40Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Y’know, I personally think that anybody who is dying probably has a **hell of a lot to say**. Yeah, but about **what** , for crissakes? People die; that’s the way it is. It does not automatically confer deep insight. > [@](#): > > And they can say it in any damned format that they like, whether it’s shitty adolescent poetry, or graffiti on the back of the hospital dunny door. Okay, but I’m allowed to gag on the shitty adolescent poetry. As for the graffiti, I might actually prefer that, because that would truly be honest, not glurged up for Oprah. I don’t know how many people here remember [Ryan White](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_White), but that’s an example of a dying kid who I never felt was exploited. He spent his last years being, literally, a poster boy for HIV, telling people what a lot of them didn’t know: that you can’t get AIDS just from being in the same room with an infected person, and like that. Much more productive than unicorns-and-rainbows poetry. And yeah, he was brave and charming and all that, but I read a lot about him, and sometimes The Human Face of AIDS was a tad whiny. And there’s no shame in that. He was a year younger than me, and I cried when he died, not because people tugged at my heartstrings to cause that, but because he was a real kid. Like my friend who died in a car accident, or the kid in my first-grade class who fell through the ice and got pneumonia. It happens, and it’s sad, but it doesn’t make the person greater than they would have been if they hadn’t gotten sick or hurt. Mattie just sounds like he was on such a high pedestal, no one could ever have really gotten close to him. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/18 "2006-05-02T10:10:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, but about what, for crissakes? People die; that’s the way it is. It does not automatically confer deep insight. Sure, people die everyday. It’s just the way it is, I agree. But people who KNOW their days are limited (if they are not denying their illness) will have some pretty special things to say, I’d say. And not all of it will be sweet… You can continue to pile on the kid for his lack of talent in the poetry field. Whatever. It’s easy to hang-shit when you are not in that situation yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/19 "2006-05-02T11:20:40Z")
> [@Acqua Minerale](#): > > The world is not a better place because of work. I absolutely agree. Can I go play golf now? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hung\_Mung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hung\_Mung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hung_Mung)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2006, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072/20 "2006-05-02T11:28:17Z")
It’s not like Longman’s is showing up to say he’s going to be included in their next anthology of college literature. It’s just pop culture. Or maybe the little fucker needs to start “keepin’ it real.” Would that make us happier? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-doesnt-make-shitty-poetry-profound/355072.md?page=2)