# Dying From Lack of Sleep. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 18, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-from-lack-of-sleep/704997 "2014-11-18T20:35:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-from-lack-of-sleep/704997/21 "2014-11-20T17:29:58Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Well, maybe. Thing is, an active prion disease was frying the brains of these poor bastards. Was the cause of death sleep deprivation, or was sleep deprivation a symptom of the underlying (and, eventually, fatal) neurological condition? > > In order to conclude that sleep deprivation is fatal in itself, we’d really want to see case studies in neurologically healthy people. Agreed. Based on the studies on rats, I would expect that sleep deprivation could well eventually be fatal in humans. But I wouldn’t consider that FFI provides adequate evidence because there are other neurological effects besides insomnia. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-from-lack-of-sleep/704997/22 "2014-11-20T17:39:32Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Agreed. > > Based on the studies on rats, I would expect that sleep deprivation could well eventually be fatal in humans. But I wouldn’t consider that FFI provides adequate evidence because there are other neurological effects besides insomnia. Based on people staying awake for long periods of times like Tom Rounds & Randy Gardner, it seems like the neurological effects in FFI and SFI are caused by lack of sleep. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-from-lack-of-sleep/704997/23 "2014-11-20T17:42:37Z")
From _Playboy_ when I was a kid in the '70s: Mary had a little lamb Given her to keep It followed her around until It died from lack of sleep ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-from-lack-of-sleep/704997/24 "2014-11-20T17:56:18Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Based on people staying awake for long periods of times like Tom Rounds & Randy Gardner, it seems like the neurological effects in FFI and SFI are caused by lack of sleep. Lacking brain biopsies on Tom and Randy, I’m not sure we can conclude that. In FFI, Neuronal loss and gliosis that is maximal within the thalamus are consistently found. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-from-lack-of-sleep/704997/25 "2014-11-20T20:09:46Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I don’t know about the lack of sleep issue. But the poem version we used was: > > _Mary had a little sheep, > With the sheep she did sleep, > The sheep turned out to be a ram, > Mary had a little lamb._ The sequel to that being: _When Mary had a little lamb, The Doctor was surprised. But when old McDonald had a farm, the Doctor nearly died!_ ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-from-lack-of-sleep/704997/26 "2014-11-20T20:19:26Z")
There seems to be a question here: Does lack of sleep cause multiple other neurological problems, ultimately leading to death? Or is lack of sleep just one of a number of neurological problems occurring in parallel as a result of an underlying disorder? Something I read on the subject once upon a time (sorry, no cite), mentioned that sleep is such a powerful need, that a sleep-deprived brain _will_ fall asleep eventually. No matter what distractions there may be (bright lights, loud noise, as was used to drive Manuel Noriega out of hiding), or forcing the interrogation subjects to remain standing: Eventually, you will get sleepy enough that you _will_ fall asleep. That is, assuming the brain otherwise healthy and functioning normally. The kind of sleep deprivation that could lead to death necessarily can happen _only_ in the presence of a brain disease like FFI, or drugs. At least, that was the implication that I saw there. So it’s kind of hard to separate those questions. ETA: Conversely, I saw an article a while ago about a converse condition: Just like there are specific brain circuits involved in switching the brain from awake mode to sleep mode, which can cause insomnia if damaged, there are other brain circuits involved in switching from sleep mode to awake mode. These could also get damaged, in which case the patient might fall asleep and not be able to wake up. The article told of a patient who had a stroke that damaged that area of the brain, and fell asleep. Her husband became alarmed when he couldn’t wake her up. Fortunately in that case, they got her to a hospital in time, and with therapy, the patient recovered. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-from-lack-of-sleep/704997/27 "2014-11-21T02:21:56Z")
Whenever I hear of forced lack of sleep, I immediately think of the old film _Stalag 17_ (1953, and I believe Peter Graves’ breakthrough role). The Nazis kept that one POW awake for days as a means of torture to get him to tell how he managed to blow up a train despite being under guard. How common is that as a means of torture? Seems like if people had died from in in large numbers, we’d know. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-from-lack-of-sleep/704997/28 "2014-11-21T02:48:56Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > but I have read that extensive lack of sleep can lead to hallucinations and insanity. I can provide at least one data point confirming that. Either that or there really are leprechauns in business suits in the Midwest. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-from-lack-of-sleep/704997/29 "2014-11-21T02:51:08Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > I can provide at least one data point confirming that. Either that or there really are leprechauns in business suits in the Midwest. That’s just Warren Buffett. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dying-from-lack-of-sleep/704997.md?page=1)