# Dylan's 'Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts': a discussion

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dylans-lily-rosemary-and-the-jack-of-hearts-a-discussion/490460>\
**Category:** Cafe Society\
**Created:** [March 23, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dylans-lily-rosemary-and-the-jack-of-hearts-a-discussion/490460 "2009-03-23T15:07:40Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 3\
**Page:** 3

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\
**Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dylans-lily-rosemary-and-the-jack-of-hearts-a-discussion/490460/41 "2011-12-27T04:35:24Z")

</div>

> [@winkosmosis](#):
>
> Every discussion and interpretation of this song ignores this line: “It was known all around that Lily had Jim’s ring”
> 
> Lily is Jim’s wife, not Rosemary. Rosemary _plays the role_ of Big Jim’s wife. Also, Rosemary was “looking like a queen without a crown”. Every sign points to Jim having an affair with Rosemary.

It’s common knowledge that Jim is screwing around with Lily. Rosemary is tired of being a wife in name only as Jim cheats on her.

For the “queen without a crown” line, Lily is a “princess”; lower than Rosemary. There’s also the obvious question of the richest man in town’s wife working as a dance hall girl.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![winkosmosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/db5fbb/32.png) [@winkosmosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/winkosmosis)\
**Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dylans-lily-rosemary-and-the-jack-of-hearts-a-discussion/490460/42 "2011-12-27T07:16:59Z")

</div>

> [@Baal\_Houtham](#):
>
> Interesting, but I’m unconvinced. Lily is introduced with the lines:  
> _Backstage the girls were playin’ five-card stud by the stairs  
> Lily had two queens, she was hopin’ for a third to match her pair_
> 
> If Lily was married to Jim, I doubt she’d still be a showgirl in the saloon. It’s implied that Rosemary enters the saloon and joins up with Big Jim, which sounds wifey to me.
> 
> The [bonus verse](http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/lily-rosemary-and-the-jack-of-hearts) from the [bobdylan.com](http://bobdylan.com) website features the lines  
> _Lily’s arms were locked around the man that she dearly loved to touch  
> She forgot all about the man she couldn’t stand who hounded her so much_  
> and that sounds like the thoughts of a mistress, not a wife.
> 
> There’s also the description of Lily:  
> _She’d come away from a broken home, had lots of strange affairs  
> With men in every walk of life which took her everywhere_  
> which sounds like the memories of a mistress.
> 
> The only semi-convincing line is  
> _It was known all around that Lily had Jim’s ring_  
> and really that sounds like a married man’s promise to a mistress. It sounds like an ill-kept secret. An affair, not a marriage.
> 
> The lines about Rosemary looking like a queen without a crown, and being tired of playing the role of Big Jim’s wife, sound like evidence of a marriage – not evidence against a marriage.

Hmm… very good points

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\
**Post date:** [December 28, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dylans-lily-rosemary-and-the-jack-of-hearts-a-discussion/490460/43 "2011-12-28T01:28:40Z")

</div>

> [@Jophiel](#):
>
> It’s common knowledge that Jim is screwing around with Lily. Rosemary is tired of being a wife in name only as Jim cheats on her.
> 
> For the “queen without a crown” line, Lily is a “princess”; lower than Rosemary. There’s also the obvious question of the richest man in town’s wife working as a dance hall girl.

Plus Rosemary publicly sits with Jim, which Lily does not do. I suspect she married Big Jim for money, not love, which is why she feels like she is playing the role, not really being his wife.

While I am a tremendous Dylan fan, anyone who is a literalist needs to listen to different versions of the songs on various bootlegs and demo tapes. From Chronicles it sounds like he is an intuitive songwriter, and if you count up the number of songs on the Wittmark Demo official bootleg with the other released ones, he writes damn fast.

[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dylans-lily-rosemary-and-the-jack-of-hearts-a-discussion/490460.md?page=2)