# Dyslexics untie! Spelling reform movment **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 7, 2015, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867 "2015-11-07T03:29:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RadicalPi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/radicalpi/32/9806_2.png) [@RadicalPi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadicalPi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/41 "2015-11-10T01:58:12Z")
> [@Harvey\_The\_Heavy](#): > > Would “there” “their” and “they’re” all be spelled the same? Are we expected to derive the meaning from the context every time? We do exactly this in speech every time. I can’t imagine that it’s all that difficult. > [@](#): > > And like several other posters have noted, who’s phonetics will be the standard? _whose_ ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/42 "2015-11-10T02:12:45Z")
Heck with Finnish, go with Hawaiian, with only 13 letters used. And it’s so easy to spell! Who could misspell humuhumunukunukuapua’a? ---
**Author:** ![Sputnikkk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Sputnikkk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sputnikkk)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/43 "2015-11-12T02:10:42Z")
> [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](#): > > Heck with Finnish, go with Hawaiian, with only 13 letters used. And it’s so easy to spell! > > Who could misspell humuhumunukunukuapua’a? only 13 letters? I learn something new every day. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/44 "2015-11-12T02:21:56Z")
Just learn the international phonetic alphabet and then spell things the way you say them, the way they sound. ---
**Author:** ![Ornery\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/da6949/32.png) [@Ornery\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ornery_Bob)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/45 "2015-11-12T02:43:13Z")
Srsly? Spelling reform? I’d like to introduce you to my buddies Sisyphus and Don Quixote, they have stories I’m sure you’ll find applicable. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/46 "2015-11-12T02:54:15Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Just learn the international phonetic alphabet and then spell things the way you say them, the way they sound. Thereby producing text which is only intelligible to people who share your accent. ---
**Author:** ![Sputnikkk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Sputnikkk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sputnikkk)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/47 "2015-11-12T12:19:03Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Thereby producing text which is only intelligible to people who share your accent. > [@Ornery\_Bob](#): > > Srsly? Spelling reform? > > I’d like to introduce you to my buddies Sisyphus and Don Quixote, they have stories I’m sure you’ll find applicable. Noah Webster and the Chicago Tribune have already succeeded in the battle for spelling reform. So it has already happened. If it weren’t for that spelling reform you would be spelling all words like fiber as fibre so all 'er" words as ‘re’ and you would be spelling ‘program’ as ‘programme’. And wouldn’t your rather spell ‘accommodate’ as ‘acomodate’? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/48 "2015-11-12T13:24:52Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Thereby producing text which is only intelligible to people who share your accent. Actually it wouldn’t be as bad as people coming up with all kinds of different transcriptions, as it’s done now when representing accents. My cite? Any thread in the Dope about pronunciation or rhyme. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/49 "2015-11-12T13:45:59Z")
> [@Sputnikkk](#): > > Noah Webster and the Chicago Tribune have already succeeded in the battle for spelling reform. So it has already happened. If it weren’t for that spelling reform you would be spelling all words like fiber as fibre so all 'er" words as ‘re’ and you would be spelling ‘program’ as ‘programme’. And wouldn’t your rather spell ‘accommodate’ as ‘acomodate’? The Chicago Tribune’s influence is limited - please remember that the entire Anglosphere is not American. Go outside America (or the Midwest for Tribune modifications) and you’re back to the older/alternate spelling. So what, exactly, has been accomplished other than having to remember different spellings? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/50 "2015-11-12T14:42:11Z")
The biggest reason it will never happen was explained by George and Ira Gershwin (with help from Astaire and Rogers): [Let’s Call the Whole Thing Off](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOILZ_D3aRg). And that’s a serious point: you say Tamayto, I say Tamahto. Which do you spelling choose? Or do you use both? I say “murderer.” You say “murdrer.” Others say “mahdrer.” Which do you choose? Are Mary, marry, and merry spelled the same in the new system? Pronunciation of the three words varies across the US, and in some areas they are the same. This isn’t trivial – if your goal is to “spell things the way they’re pronounced,” you will create spellings that are not like those usually used in certain areas. And you’re just creating a new version of the problem you’re trying to solve – just with different words. And the bigger issue is the fact that _all_ English words are spelled the way they were pronounced – _at the time the word entered the language_. Thus, something like “knight” had all its letters (the “gh” was used to refer to the velar fricative, which dropped out of the language a few centuries later). All the pronunciations for -ough also were caused by the loss of the velar fricative. And even if you can come up with something that spells all words as they are pronounced (essentially impossible), pronunciation changes happen all the time. And eventually, someone will talk about a new spelling reform to “spell words the way they’re pronounced.” And the circle of nonsense goes on… ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/51 "2015-11-12T15:34:00Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > [QUOTE=AHunter3] > Just learn the international phonetic alphabet and then spell things the way you say them, the way they sound. Thereby producing text which is only intelligible to people who share your accent. [/QUOTE] > [@RealityChuck](#): > > The biggest reason it will never happen was explained by George and Ira Gershwin (with help from Astaire and Rogers)… > > And that’s a serious point: you say Tamayto, I say Tamahto. Which do you spelling choose? Or do you use both? If you can understand people when they actually _say_ “tomahto” or “I pahhkt the kaaa ett haavaaad yaaad”, you would be able to understand the IPA rendition. That’s the point: you would spell things the way _you_ would pronounce them and people who read it would ‘hear’ you just as if you’d said it out loud. (Or they would if they could read IPA at any rate). [QUOTE=IPA] juziŋ ∂ǝ Intɚnæʃǝnǝl fǝnɛtIk ælfǝbɛt jud se aI pɑkt ∂ǝ kɑ ɛt hɑvǝd yɑd [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/52 "2015-11-12T20:43:06Z")
> [@Sputnikkk](#): > > If it weren’t for that spelling reform you would be spelling all words like fiber as fibre so all 'er" words as ‘re’ and you would be spelling ‘program’ as ‘programme’. That is how I spell those words. ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/53 "2015-11-13T19:40:46Z")
I think that the spoken language is disappearing completely with the proliferation of computers and texting and twittering, etc. I think we should adopt a more logical and comprehensive communication paradigm. One that represents the full flavor of information exchange in this day and age. One that we can all understand and use in a clear and concise manner. So, to your proposal to simply rework spelling instead of represent communication properly, I say ```auto I \,ieah\ disagree \,dis-e-'grE\ . ``` ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/54 "2015-11-16T07:53:58Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > You are too late. The EU, led by Frau Merkel, has awlreddy announced the following: That’s actually a reworking of an old joke about making English end up more like a thick German accent. > [@Sputnikkk](#): > > Another step in spelling reform could be to make all words ending in ‘ence’ and ‘ance’ have consistent spelling: choose one way or another for the words like: > existence > influence > absence > audience > existence > > allowance > ambulance > annoyance > appearance > appliance Uh, I pronounce the “ence” words and the “ance” words differently in my dialect. I frequently encounter word games or dialect representations that I have to struggle to understand, because I don’t pronounce the words the way the person who wrote that example does. Take something like “Wazzup”. That’s a very unnatural butchering. I only know it because of that horrible commercial that made it a pop culture meme. Or take an example from Harry Potter, “Diagon Alley” for _diagonally_. The author seems to pronounce the word more like _dia GONE uhly_, whereas I pronounce it more _di AG uh nully_. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/55 "2015-11-16T13:32:36Z")
I doubt that Rowling actually pronounces “diagonally” significantly different from the rest of us; there’s only so much you can do in pursuit of a pun. One reason for Finns’ superior reading and spelling might be, as I learned a few years back, the huge cultural bias in favour of being literate and numerate. As I understand it, until comparatively recently Finns who did not pass a public literacy test in their mid-teens weren’t allowed to marry. That was enough incentive for most (and possibly bred out the ones who couldn’t be arsed to learn to read). ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/56 "2015-11-17T01:12:44Z")
I’d like spelling reform to happen. It won’t. We had much better reasons to go metric. We didn’t. (personally, my car gets 300 rods to the hogshead and that’s the way I likes it!) Re Spanish I agree it’s much easier to spell. Also, being a Latin language and following (mostly anyway) Latin rules it’s easier to learn and to use. Spansih was a breeze in high school. Re Esperanto I have some friends who speak it. They even have The Hobbit in Esperanto. Esperanto is easy to spell, has grammar that makes sense, and belongs to no one country or culture. For a while, it seemed that it would overtake French as the language of diplomacy. These days, Esperanto is a footnote and a hobby. To reform English spelling, all you have to do is convince a super majority of English speakers to follow your lead. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/57 "2015-11-17T01:54:10Z")
I think the problem is that there are too many redundant letters in the English language. We should switch to the [Decabet](https://vimeo.com/66638573). ---
**Author:** ![Kiwi-Ian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9fc348/32.png) [@Kiwi-Ian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi-Ian)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/58 "2015-11-19T02:49:55Z")
The Germans have had regular reviews of their spelling, when my mother learned German in the 40s (in England, when they thought German might become more useful than French!) it was “photograph” as in English and street was “straße”. When I learned German in the 70’s it was fotograf but street was still “straße”. Today, it is “strasse”. Unfortunately there is a problem with different pronunciations. I DO pronounce library and February with 2 Rs and I put a D in Wednesday. As I have a non-rhotic accent I do not pronounce the R in letter so shortening it to LETR is meaningless. The E at the end of many (most?) words actually has a function - it makes the vowel long (vowel has 2 syllables so it’s not VOWL) e.g. made and mad are different. Sometimes American spelling is more logical, e.g. color. Sometimes it’s not, educated Brits want to pronounce traveling as traveeling (the double L in travelling makes the preceding vowel short - it’s the reverse of the final e and can be seen in e.g. running). It’s a huge subject, but one where Americans, British, and Commonwealth have to work together. There are more English speakers in India than in the US!! ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/59 "2015-11-19T02:56:33Z")
> [@Kiwi-Ian](#): > > There are more English speakers in India than in the US!! Not according to Wikipedia. [List of countries by English-speaking population - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867/60 "2015-11-21T01:34:33Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > Not according to Wikipedia. [List of countries by English-speaking population - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population) A better statement is that there are more English speakers in South Asia than in the U.S. And that there are more English speakers in India than any other country else besides the U.S. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dyslexics-untie-spelling-reform-movment/736867.md?page=2)