# Dystopian novels **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 9, 2015, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923 "2015-12-09T08:44:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/61 "2015-12-11T16:55:04Z")
I don’t think a dystopia and a Post apocalyptic story are the same. A Dystopia has some sort of Government and society but it is an undesirable one to the reader or audience. Whereas a post apocalyptic story has a disaster which removes Government and society and the story is those who survive and possibly build a new one. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/62 "2015-12-11T17:01:46Z")
Plato’s Republic was a dialog. Anyway, whatever form, calling it dystopian is clever Sophism. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/63 "2015-12-11T17:38:25Z")
_Damnation Alley_ by Roger Zelazny is very good. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/64 "2015-12-11T17:41:47Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I don’t think a dystopia and a Post apocalyptic story are the same. A Dystopia has some sort of Government and society but it is an undesirable one to the reader or audience. Whereas a post apocalyptic story has a disaster which removes Government and society and the story is those who survive and possibly build a new one. I disagree to the extent that so many stories are both. I see a dystopia as a place where it would really suck to live. How it got to that point is a separate issue. ---
**Author:** ![Philliam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/philliam/32/3011_2.png) [@Philliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philliam)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/65 "2015-12-11T18:06:34Z")
‘Riddley Walker’ - Russell Hoban ---
**Author:** ![Purd\_Werfect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47c2d/32.png) [@Purd\_Werfect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Purd_Werfect)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/66 "2015-12-12T00:00:19Z")
[The Gone-Away World](http://smile.amazon.com/Gone-Away-World-Nick-Harkaway-ebook/dp/B001EL6R9W/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1449878284&sr=1-1&keywords=the+gone+away+world) by _Nick Harkaway_. [The Bone Clocks](http://smile.amazon.com/Bone-Clocks-Novel-David-Mitchell-ebook/dp/B00IHMF9KE/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1449878460&sr=1-1&keywords=bone+clocks) by _David Mitchell_. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/67 "2015-12-12T15:24:17Z")
Ira Levin’s This Perfect Day (his tribute to 1984) is extremely dystopian. And Stepford Wives might fit in there too. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/68 "2015-12-12T16:01:29Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > I submit Mary Shelly’s **The Last Man** for earliest sci-fi dystopia. 1826 Gulliver’s Travels (1726) has some parts that take place in dystopias, like Luggnagg with its struldbrugs. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/69 "2015-12-12T21:40:21Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Sure - Plato’s _Republic_, from around 380 BC. The division of society into ridged castes (gold, silver, bronze, iron), the abolishment of the family so that parents and children do not know each other, and controlled breeding of human beings dictated by the “philosopher-kings” is not where I would want to live. I’m sure it would be fine if you were at the very top but I don’t think those on the bottom would have such a wonderful life. > > It actually sounds a bit like _Brave New World_ or _We_. The government of Iran is largely based on Plato’s The Republic and I’d say it supports your contention. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/70 "2015-12-13T03:04:21Z")
> [@Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](#): > > Also Vic and Blood: The Chronicles of a Boy and His Dog by Harlan Ellison. Superb B movie as well, with a young Don Johnson. Oh, those, book and movie both, really were truly awful. I don’t think Gibson’s world is dystopian, either, but would also recommend the books. _The Dispossessed_ and _The Lathe of Heaven_ both explore the nature of dystopia. _Children of Men_, of course _Walk to the End of the World_; I haven’t read it in ages, so I’m not sure how good it is. ---
**Author:** ![nymeria](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9fc348/32.png) [@nymeria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nymeria)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/71 "2015-12-17T05:24:31Z")
Wow. These are loads. Thank you. There is this dystopian novel i forgot the title where parents can actually sell their kid’s body parts. Lol. Somebody please? ---
**Author:** ![Ace331](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Ace331](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace331)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/72 "2015-12-17T16:56:38Z")
> [@nymeria](#): > > Wow. These are loads. Thank you. There is this dystopian novel i forgot the title where parents can actually sell their kid’s body parts. Lol. Somebody please? Quick Google search pulled up this: > [@](#): > > Unwind is a 2007 science fiction novel by young adult literature author Neal Shusterman. It takes place in the United States, after a civil war somewhere in the near future. After a civil war—known as the Second Civil War or the Heartland War—is fought over abortion, a compromise was reached, allowing parents to sign an order for their children between the ages of 13 and 18 years old to be unwound—taken to “harvest camps” and having their body parts harvested for later use. The reasoning was that, since 100% was required to be used, unwinds did not technically “die”, because their individual body parts lived on. In addition to unwinding, parents who are unable to raise their children to age thirteen for retroactive abortion have the option to “stork” their child by leaving it on another family’s porch. If they don’t get caught, the “storked” baby then becomes the other family’s responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/73 "2015-12-17T17:58:22Z")
Tuesday’s Final Jeopardy had **Dystopian Authors** as its category. A friend and I are both smart so during the commercial break we always like to try and ‘pre-guess’ the answer based only on the category. I pre-guessed Aldus Huxley, and was right\*!\* Even the winner didn’t get it. My thinking process was simply: The archetype dystopian author is George Orwell with _1984_ so that’s too obvious. What’s the second most? _Brave New World_ and Huxley\*!\* Turns out, according to Trebeck’s explanation, Huxley was actually a mentor to Orwell (which I didn’t know). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/74 "2015-12-17T18:12:15Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Tuesday’s Final Jeopardy had **Dystopian Authors** as its category. [_Jeopardy 1999!_](https://screen.yahoo.com/jeopardy-1999-000000641.html) ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/75 "2015-12-17T18:57:40Z")
Brave New World is one of my favorite dystopias because it is only terrible to an outside observer. Those living inside of it are very happy. In fact even some people outside the system wouldn’t even think of it as a dystopia at all (I don’t agree but I have seen the argument be made). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/76 "2015-12-17T19:29:15Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Brave New World is one of my favorite dystopias because it is only terrible to an outside observer. Those living inside of it are very happy. In fact even some people outside the system wouldn’t even think of it as a dystopia at all (I don’t agree but I have seen the argument be made). _1984_ is dystopian because, as O’Brien ultimately admits (or boasts) to Winston Smith, Oceanian Ingsoc is based ultimately on sadomasochism; it exists only so that Inner Party members can enjoy the power of making their prisoners suffer. _BNW_ is a subtler dystopia – there is no cruelty in the World Controllers, they genuinely want everyone to be happy – the fatal flaw is that they have sacrificed freedom for stability. They’ve sacrificed everything for stability. The World State is a high-tech society, but come back in 500 years and practically no further scientific or technological progress will have been made. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/77 "2015-12-17T20:45:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The World State is a high-tech society, but come back in 500 years and practically no further scientific or technological progress will have been made. Is that so awful? As dystopian author M. Simpson once said “I’ve dug myself a nice little rut here and I’m not about to hoist myself out of it”. ---
**Author:** ![Satchmo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/satchmo/32/4223_2.png) [@Satchmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satchmo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/78 "2015-12-17T22:36:03Z")
Okay, probably not a dystopia, but Lucifer’s Hammer by Niven (and Pournelle?) is a very good Post apocalyptic story. It does extend to the start of rebuilding Society. ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/79 "2015-12-17T22:50:35Z")
> [@Purd\_Werfect](#): > > [The Gone-Away World](http://smile.amazon.com/Gone-Away-World-Nick-Harkaway-ebook/dp/B001EL6R9W/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1449878284&sr=1-1&keywords=the+gone+away+world) by _Nick Harkaway_. > > [The Bone Clocks](http://smile.amazon.com/Bone-Clocks-Novel-David-Mitchell-ebook/dp/B00IHMF9KE/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1449878460&sr=1-1&keywords=bone+clocks) by _David Mitchell_. Came in to mention The Gone Away World. My work here is done. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923/80 "2015-12-18T10:28:18Z")
Regarding **Zamyatin** ’s _We_. > [@Voyager](#): > > Seconded. All the dystopian stuff decades before the form became popular, by someone who fled early Communist Russia and knew a dystopia first hand. Indeed. It was written in 1920, a mere 3 years after the October Revolution and more than a decade before _Brave New World_. **Orwell** readily admitted that it had influenced him when he wrote _Nineteen Eighty-Four_. Coincidentally, I’m rereading it at the moment. It’s really good. Say what you will about the political turmoil at the time but the [cultural life in Russia at the beginning of the 20th century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_avant-garde) was visionary and fascinating. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-novels/739923.md?page=3)