# Dystopian/utopian society
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [August 12, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575 "2003-08-12T03:39:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@One\_Vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_Vision)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/1 "2003-08-12T03:39:28Z")
Could anyone recommend me some books from that category (preferably written between 1930’s and 1990’s)
So far I’ve read:
Fahrenheit 451
1984
Brave New World
Lost Horizon
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### Author:  [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/2 "2003-08-12T03:53:30Z")
Back when I was into those sorts of books, I greatly enjoyed _A Canticle for Liebowitz_, but the first 2/3 of that book are more like post-apocalyptic fiction, which often has a similiar feel to dystopia but explores different ideas.
You seem to have read the important ones, so everything else is just dressing on the salad.
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### Author:  [@Shiva418](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shiva418)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/3 "2003-08-12T05:35:09Z")
Try Ayn Rand’s _Anthem_.
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### Author:  [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/4 "2003-08-12T07:09:06Z")
I second Anthem.
Try A Clockwork Orange,
We (it’s by some Russian guy)
if I can think of anymore, I’ll post.
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### Author:  [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/5 "2003-08-12T07:34:27Z")
I’d have to dis-reccomend Anthem. Although it is important and in the correct genre, I absolutely hated it.
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### Author:  [@Lsura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lsura)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/6 "2003-08-12T10:52:55Z")
The Handmaid’s Tale - it’s kind of a girly book, but it’s definitely dystopian.
There’s also an older novel, _Herland_ by Charlotte Perkins Gilman that’s interesting.
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### Author:  [@IcicleFuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IcicleFuzz)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/7 "2003-08-12T13:11:38Z")
For a utopian novel, try _Island_, by Aldous Huxley.
I also have to second the reccomendation of The Handmaids Tale. Good stuff.
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### Author:  [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/8 "2003-08-12T13:24:33Z")
The Lord of the Rings. The Shire is surely a more believable and sustainable utopia than most, and Mordor is one of the worst places to live imaginable.
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### Author:  [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/9 "2003-08-12T14:31:27Z")
_Valley of the Dolls_ by J. Susann
_Peyton Place_ by Grace Metalious
_Less Than Zero_ by Brett Easton Ellis
Not exactly dystopias in the classic sense of the term (except LTZ) but still cracking good reads.
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### Author:  [@stick\_monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stick_monkey)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/10 "2003-08-12T14:50:00Z")
_[The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect](http://jedinite.com/mopi/mopiidx.html)_
Not completely dystopian. But damn good none the less.
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### Author:  [@MusicJunkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicJunkie)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/11 "2003-08-12T14:51:00Z")
I’m reading Skinner’s Walden 2 and it’s great so far. Nice intro to bahivourism as well.
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### Author:  [@MusicJunkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicJunkie)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/12 "2003-08-12T14:52:49Z")
Behaviorism
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### Author:  [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/13 "2003-08-12T16:18:41Z")
**This Perfect Day** (Ira Levin).
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### Author:  [@One\_Vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_Vision)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/14 "2003-08-12T18:54:59Z")
Thank you all, that sounds interesting. I’ve already read Anthem, IMHO it was pretty good… but then again, any non-fantasy/detective/romance book would be great for me.
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### Author:  [@Lsura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lsura)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/15 "2003-08-12T21:39:04Z")
I was thinking, and I don’t really know if this falls into the category, but [Ecotopia](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553348477/qid=1060724672/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-9766556-3400608?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) by Ernest Callenbach.
It’s …interesting, and even now I can’t decide if it’s utopian, dystopian or neither.
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### Author:  [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/16 "2003-08-12T23:11:06Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Lsura \*
> \*\*I was thinking, and I don’t really know if this falls into the category, but [Ecotopia](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553348477/qid=1060724672/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-9766556-3400608?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) by Ernest Callenbach.
>
> It’s …interesting, and even now I can’t decide if it’s utopian, dystopian or neither. \*\*
\
Reading the description of the land of Ecotopia, and then reading Ralph Nader say “None of the _happy_ conditions in Ecotopia are beyond the technical or resource reach of our society,” (italics added)…just frightening. That he considers a 200 year regression of the human race to be “happy” is no surprise since he’s a Green, but matriarchy? Bah! And the quotes from environmentalists all seemed to indicate their approval. Maybe I better read this one sometime to know what they’re really after, if I wouldn’t be horrified at each page turn.
I guess this is why we enjoy fiction like this, it lets us explore ideas and see which ones collapse, which sustain themselves, and evaluate what we think of the consequences of an idea put to action.
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### Author:  [@Kakofonous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kakofonous)
#### Post date: [August 12, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/17 "2003-08-12T23:18:49Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by RandMcnally \*
> [BWe (it’s by some Russian guy) \*\*
[_We_ by Yevgeny Zamyatin](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0140185852/qid=1060730663/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-0359876-0166439?v=glance&s=books)
There are two different English translations of this book - most people that I know prefered the one by Clarence Brown.
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### Author:  [@One\_Vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_Vision)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/18 "2003-08-13T00:04:15Z")
_I guess this is why we enjoy fiction like this, it lets us explore ideas and see which ones collapse, which sustain themselves, and evaluate what we think of the consequences of an idea put to action._
I think that most of these events (that someone wrote in a book several decades ago and they came true… in some way) were not predicted, they were inspired by those books.
And, I’ll try to stay away from _We_ for some time. I don’t like translations much (except those books that are really good), and reading in Russian makes me shudder.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/19 "2003-08-13T03:44:45Z")
John Varley’s Eight World series qualifies as both a dystopia and utopia. The series is spread across at least three novels and a couple dozen shorter works and Varley has admitted he has not bothered to maintain internal consistency between the seperate works. But the basic idea is that aliens arrived and eliminated virtually all human life on Earth (because we were bothering the dolphins which the aliens considered the only important lifeform on the planet). A handful of humans survived on the moon and began rebuilding.
The books for the most part are set a century or so later. Humanity has spread through the solar system and AI computers and nanotechnology has given people almost every physical comfort they could desire. But most people are subconsciously aware that the race is going nowhere: the aliens are so far above humanity their cannot even be sensed; the aliens who wiped out most of humanity once could conceivably finish the job at any time; and in the absense of FTL travel, the human race is apparently never going to leave the Solar system. So people essentially have everything they could want except hope for a meaningful future.
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### Author:  [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)
#### Post date: [August 13, 2003, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dystopian-utopian-society/194575/20 "2003-08-13T04:07:35Z")
_The giver_ and _Gathering blue_ by Lois Lowry. Children’s literature, but well worth reading.
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