# E-fucking-nough. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2003, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/e-fucking-nough/155434 "2003-02-16T12:42:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/e-fucking-nough/155434/81 "2003-02-17T12:43:36Z")
Awwww, fuck. 😃 I hate it when I do that. I’m confusing Molly’s name with the name of a bar I used to frequent back in the day, “Polly Magoo”. It’s my memory, man. I’m no longer in my twenties, and it’s showing already! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/e-fucking-nough/155434/82 "2003-02-17T16:58:17Z")
nothingnobody & chula: Now I see you equating Soldiers as murderers. I don’t get why you have that viewpoint. Jacksen9 summed up the reality of the situation quite nicely. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/e-fucking-nough/155434/83 "2003-02-17T18:17:23Z")
Maybe political shorthand terms are different in Europe, but over here “hawk” and “dove” aren’t considered pejorative or even personal. They’re just shorthand - which, of course, can obscure useful nuances, but exploring those is what forums like this are for. “Warmonger” and “appeaser” are pejorative and personal, though. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/e-fucking-nough/155434/84 "2003-02-17T18:26:31Z")
I’m not so sure about that, Elvis. I’m trying to imagine an interview on CNN: “So, exactly how do you and other hawks justify this action?” I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the respondent shot back, “I am not a hawk…” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/e-fucking-nough/155434/85 "2003-02-17T18:39:04Z")
I would, but YMMV. Those terms have been in common use for a very long time, and I have never heard anyone object to their use until now. ---
**Author:** ![nothingnobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c2a13f/32.png) [@nothingnobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nothingnobody)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/e-fucking-nough/155434/86 "2003-02-17T21:17:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*nothingnobody & chula: Now I see you equating Soldiers as murderers. > > I don’t get why you have that viewpoint. Jacksen9 summed up the reality of the situation quite nicely. \*\* lol. i predicted it. are you purposely misinterpreting what is being said to suit the strange world you live in, or what? all that was said is that if a person considers a war unjust than they may interpret the actions of the soldiers differently than someone who considers a war just. MY PERSONAL excuse for THIS PARTICULAR war would be that the U.S. soldiers were just following orders. but YOU say that is not a valid defense. that is all. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/e-fucking-nough/155434/87 "2003-02-17T21:47:00Z")
I’m done with you, nothing. There is no excuse today to not know what the expression “just following orders” means when applied to a war. There was a huge thing called the War Crimes Tribunals held where that expression was flouted left & right. Your continued assertions are invalid on their face. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/e-fucking-nough/155434/88 "2003-02-17T21:50:23Z")
Monty, do you notice you’re the _only_ poster in this thread interpreting nothingnobody’s use of the term “just following orders” as an attempt to compare US soldiers with Nazis? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/e-fucking-nough/155434/89 "2003-02-17T22:20:29Z")
I saw that, Coldie, and I explained it. I also noticed this bullshit: > [@](#): > > i don’t expect people who are in the business of killing eachother to act nobly and always follow the law as it was written. Did you not notice that? Got an opinion on it? ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/e-fucking-nough/155434/90 "2003-02-17T22:28:48Z")
Reads to me as a rewording of “war ain’t fair”, unless it somehow was meant to imply that soldiers somehow have lower morals than average citizens. We _know_ you’re not supposed to kill civilians during a war, it’s against the rules. But in the heat of the moment, it’s happened in every war. We like to think “our” boys won’t do it, but the reality is that they have, and will. This is not directed towards American soldiers, by the way. I believe a human being is capable of killing, and I believe a human being can be taught to detach himself from killing - a soldier has to, to an extent. I also believe that under the stress of war, people snap, and end up doing things they rationally would never even consider. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/e-fucking-nough/155434/91 "2003-02-17T22:35:21Z")
And thus the punishment for murder as provided in our military code of law, which, btw, was passed by our civilian government. ---
**Author:** ![nothingnobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c2a13f/32.png) [@nothingnobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nothingnobody)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/e-fucking-nough/155434/92 "2003-02-17T23:28:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*Reads to me as a rewording of “war ain’t fair”, unless it somehow was meant to imply that soldiers somehow have lower morals than average citizens. > > We _know_ you’re not supposed to kill civilians during a war, it’s against the rules. But in the heat of the moment, it’s happened in every war. We like to think “our” boys won’t do it, but the reality is that they have, and will. > > This is not directed towards American soldiers, by the way. I believe a human being is capable of killing, and I believe a human being can be taught to detach himself from killing - a soldier has to, to an extent. I also believe that under the stress of war, people snap, and end up doing things they rationally would never even consider. \*\* yes, that’s basically it. i’m not thinking in terms of what country people are from. i am looking at history and what people are capable of. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/e-fucking-nough/155434/93 "2003-02-17T23:43:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > **We used to be able to agree to disagree, and bring forth our opinions in a civilised manner, _with respect for the opposing party_.** Cite? Enough is enough though, I agree. For one thing, what’s with all this talk about the Low Countries? How insultingly silly can one be? Just because Belgium is giving us a hard time over Going To War, doesn’t provide an excuse for childish invective, not to mention dragging in the helpless Dutch. I herewith unabashedly proclaim my fondness for Brussels sprouts, a vegetable I have not only voluntarily consumed on many occasions but _actually grown myself_. And the land of **Coldfire** can proudly point to an international achievement of no little note, _Hollandaise sauce_ Come to think of it, Brussels sprouts and Hollandaise sauce are a masterful marrying of Low Country achievements. I support them both and am not ashamed to admit it. I’ll think up something nice to say about Luxembourg in just a moment. Somebody help me out here. Textiles? ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/e-fucking-nough/155434/94 "2003-02-17T23:53:44Z")
Banks, and tax-free gas stations. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/e-fucking-nough/155434.md?page=4)