# Eagles or wind power? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 22, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257 "2012-01-22T00:08:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sudden\_Kestrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Sudden\_Kestrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sudden_Kestrel)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/1 "2012-01-22T00:08:02Z")
For the last year or more, some citizens in my area have been fighting a proposed wind farm, with accusations of nefarious tactics on both sides. I’ve pretty much been of the opinion that we can’t get all NIMBY about this kind of thing if we hope to break our dependence on fossil fuels, but I acknowledge that they’re not trying to put up a turbine across the road from me and my opinion is not really relevant. However, today I came across [this article](http://www.startribune.com/local/137803668.html), and I don’t think I can go along with this. In brief, the wind company plans to submit a request for a permit to kill bald eagles and golden eagles in order to (AFAICT) keep them from being killed by the proposed wind turbines. > [@](#): > > A controversial wind farm proposed near Red Wing plans to ask for federal permission to legally kill eagles, making it one of the first in the nation to participate in a new federal strategy aimed at managing the often-lethal conflict between birds and turbine blades. > > U.S. Fish and Wildlife officials say they urged the developers of AWA Goodhue Wind to seek the new permit because the deaths of an unknown number of eagles and endangered golden eagles will be inevitable once the 50-turbine project is up and running. The thought of allowing this company to kill these magnificent birds makes me sick to my stomach. I suppose eventually there will be a lot of places facing similar choices, so I’m interested to find out what Dopers think. So what’ll it be, eagles or wind power? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/2 "2012-01-22T00:16:27Z")
Wind. If any eagles get zapped by the blades, fry 'em up for lunch on your electric stove powered by a wind turbine, then save the leftovers in the fridge, powered the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/3 "2012-01-22T00:37:40Z")
Eagles. Eagles are an important part of the ecosystem. You can’t just take one part out without throwing everything else out of balance. I’m sympathetic to alternate energy sources and I even think wind farms are pretty. But the whole point of alternate energy to begin with is that it’s more environmentally friendly. If it’s going to ravage the environment anyway, we might as well stick with coal. And it’s not like I’d be on board with a coal plant that killed eagles, either. ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/4 "2012-01-22T00:41:30Z")
Maybe the eagles could be trained to fly on treadmills, thus harnessing energy from the eagles. ---
**Author:** ![Sudden\_Kestrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Sudden\_Kestrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sudden_Kestrel)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/5 "2012-01-22T00:46:01Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > Maybe the eagles could be trained to fly on treadmills, thus harnessing energy from the eagles. I’m not sure a eagle on a treadmill is any less sad than a dead eagle :D. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/6 "2012-01-22T00:47:13Z")
Kill every eagle that comes near rather than the occasional bird that runs into a blade. Makes no sense. I vote eagles. ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/7 "2012-01-22T00:52:09Z")
An “Incidental Take” permit doesn’t mean they’re allowed to intentionally kill any eagles; only that they can legally operate the windmills despite the fact that some eagles will die as a result. I still vote for eagles, but it’s not quite as evil a plan as the OP suggests. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/8 "2012-01-22T00:54:38Z")
In all seriousness, there seems to be a controversy as to whether birds are killed by turbines or not. It seems odd that a maneuverable flying creature with such incredible eyesight can’t see and avoid the blades. It’s not like they are invisible. Do eagles crash into tall trees and big mountains, too? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/9 "2012-01-22T00:55:01Z")
What the hell? Are the Eagles still on tour? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/10 "2012-01-22T00:55:10Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > Maybe the eagles could be trained to fly on treadmills, thus harnessing energy from the eagles. How fast would the eagle have to run on the treadmill before it could take off? I voted eagles. Although I might not mind seeing Glenn Frey chopped up. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/11 "2012-01-22T00:55:55Z")
Eagles ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/12 "2012-01-22T00:55:56Z")
From the article: > [@](#): > > To get a permit, the company must provide a detailed plan designed to minimize the impact on protected species, project how many are likely to be killed each year, and keep track of the outcome. and: > [@](#): > > Without the permit, the company could be subject to federal prosecution if the project results in the destruction of the birds or their nests. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/13 "2012-01-22T01:10:17Z")
I suspect some of you eagle voters are using a computer powered by…which coal-fired power plant, now? Why do you hate wind power so? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/14 "2012-01-22T01:12:27Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I suspect some of you eagle voters are using a computer powered by… Indentured Cambodian children running on a treadmill. Why do you ask? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/15 "2012-01-22T01:28:52Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Indentured Cambodian children running on a treadmill. Why do you ask? That’s the spirit. Don’t spare the whip if they get out of line. Can they ever take off? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/16 "2012-01-22T01:31:08Z")
I voted wind. Seriously, some of you were really thinking the evil wind company was going to employ snipers to shoot bald eagles out of the sky? Hey, I hear they use live kittens and puppies as bait, too. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/17 "2012-01-22T01:31:18Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > That’s the spirit. Don’t spare the whip if they get out of line. Can they ever take off? No paid leave! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/18 "2012-01-22T01:51:48Z")
I read recently about a new blade design which would apparently greatly minimize raptor (& other bird) deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/19 "2012-01-22T01:57:52Z")
I voted Eagles, assuming, of course (as you probably meant) to use their amazing flying abilities to generate power rather those crappy old windmill things. That IS what you meant, right? And when they run out of steam, you can always kill and eat them. Hey… why are all staring at me? “It tastes just like chicken!” ---
**Author:** ![Windsong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Windsong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windsong)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257/20 "2012-01-22T03:22:37Z")
Have there already been instances of eagle fatalities caused by the blades of windmills? I have a cousin whose company was connected somehow to another that installed the blades of windmills. They’re actually quite huge (one flatbed traincar holds a single blade. I could be wrong, but it doesn’t seem to me the blades in average winds would be rotating fast enough to cause the deaths of these endangered fowl. And why the bald eagle and the golden eagle in particular? In my perhaps uneducated opinion, the most harmful predator to these birds is mankind (read poachers). > [@Sudden\_Kestrel](#): > > For the last year or more, some citizens in my area have been fighting a proposed wind farm, with accusations of nefarious tactics on both sides. I’ve pretty much been of the opinion that we can’t get all NIMBY about this kind of thing if we hope to break our dependence on fossil fuels, but I acknowledge that they’re not trying to put up a turbine across the road from me and my opinion is not really relevant. However, today I came across [this article](http://www.startribune.com/local/137803668.html), and I don’t think I can go along with this. > > In brief, the wind company plans to submit a request for a permit to kill bald eagles and golden eagles in order to (AFAICT) keep them from being killed by the proposed wind turbines. > > The thought of allowing this company to kill these magnificent birds makes me sick to my stomach. I suppose eventually there will be a lot of places facing similar choices, so I’m interested to find out what Dopers think. So what’ll it be, eagles or wind power? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eagles-or-wind-power/610257.md?page=2)