# Earlier 'S' Variations **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [August 16, 2003, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earlier-s-variations/195554 "2003-08-16T06:59:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ChampagneSheik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@ChampagneSheik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChampagneSheik)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earlier-s-variations/195554/1 "2003-08-16T06:59:31Z")
In Cecil’s reply to [why 18th century literature had 'f’s instead of 's’s](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_110.html) , he says that the 'f’s were actually 's’s that had a different appearance depending on where they were in a word. He says that the earliest appearance of varying 's’s was in the 1800s or something like that. But, although I’m sure he knows this 😉 , I’d like to point out that an earlier appearance would be that of the 's’s in ancient Greek. Called ‘sigmas’, the Greeks used the o-shaped sigma at the beginning of a word and the s-shaped sigma everywhere else. Just FYI! ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2003, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earlier-s-variations/195554/2 "2003-08-16T07:17:34Z")
I’m 95% sure of this. You’re close, but not quite. The o-shaped sigma is the regular simga, used most often, and the s-shaped one is the “final sigma”, used only at the _end_ of words. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earlier-s-variations/195554/3 "2003-08-20T15:29:38Z")
The long “s” form can be found in calligraphic uſe before the advent of moveable type printing. When printing took off, the practice ſimply was continued as it had previouſly been done. ---
**Author:** ![Shrinking\_Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Shrinking\_Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shrinking_Violet)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earlier-s-variations/195554/4 "2003-08-20T21:17:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > \*\*The long “s” form can be found in calligraphic uſe before the advent of moveable type printing. When printing took off, the practice ſimply was continued as it had previouſly been done. \*\* Very ſuccinctly put ſir. Julie ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earlier-s-variations/195554/5 "2003-08-20T21:36:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Achernar \* > \*\*I’m 95% sure of this. You’re close, but not quite. The o-shaped sigma is the regular simga, used most often, and the s-shaped one is the “final sigma”, used only at the _end_ of words. \*\* That’s right. There are three sigmas - lowercase (the o with a funky hat coming out the right side), uppercase (a blocky, jaggedy capital E, kind of), and final (which is a big looping “c” with a small tail, kinda snakelike). I can’t reproduce them here, though. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earlier-s-variations/195554/6 "2003-08-22T00:14:05Z")
capital sigma: S \S\ standard lower-case: s \s\ final lower-case: V \V\ replace \<\> with in vB code. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earlier-s-variations/195554/7 "2003-08-22T00:16:05Z")
“long ess” ſ \ſ\ (which I didn’t know before) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earlier-s-variations/195554/8 "2003-08-22T00:17:23Z")
Er. oops. & # 383 ; lose the spaces. ſ ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earlier-s-variations/195554/9 "2003-08-22T00:19:27Z")
Oh, yeah. They enabled Symbol a while ago, didn’t they? Cool. capital sigma: S standard lower-case sigma: s final lower-case signma: V ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earlier-s-variations/195554/10 "2003-08-24T08:13:30Z")
**foolsguinea** , wouldn’t that be called a _question mark_? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earlier-s-variations/195554/11 "2003-08-24T18:09:14Z")
**Irishman** , I suspect that your browser just doesn’t recognize the character, and uses a question mark as its symbol for “I don’t recognize this”. On my screen, I do indeed see a glyph which vaguely resembles a lower-case f. ---
**Author:** ![uriber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/848f3c/32.png) [@uriber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uriber)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earlier-s-variations/195554/12 "2003-08-29T10:39:36Z")
Even better: capital sigma: **Σ** ( Σ ) standard lower-case sigma: **σ** ( σ ) final lower-case signma: **ς** ( ς )