# Earliest Birthdate of Person on Film
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [January 2, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189 "2012-01-02T22:24:22Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@relesabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/relesabe)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/1 "2012-01-02T22:24:22Z")
While Jeanne Calment was the oldest person to appear in a movie (and the oldest ever surviving actress) my question is probably not answered with her name.
It does not have to be a professional. I am guessing that there are for example movie clips of John D. Rockefeller who was born in 1839.
But it is just barely possible that someone born in the 18th century was captured in a film clip although I doubt it.
Here’s a tangentially-related question: Who was the last living person to have met someone born in the 18th century? It is theoretically possible that someone is still alive today who has…
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### Author:  [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/2 "2012-01-02T22:51:32Z")
> [@relesabe](#):
>
> Here’s a tangentially-related question: Who was the last living person to have met someone born in the 18th century? It is theoretically possible that someone is still alive today who has…
Well, the oldest verified lifespan was 122 years. To be born in 1800 and then meet someone late in life who would then lived to 2011 would mean that the average lifespan of the two people involved would have to be 105. So not impossible, though not that likely either (and even less likely that if it happened, the people in question would’ve been aware of it, as the person alive now would’ve had to be very young).
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/3 "2012-01-02T23:06:12Z")
Fascinating discussion in Wikipedia:
> **[Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2009 January 19January 19](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2009_January_19)**
>
> What is the earliest film of the oldest person? By that I mean, is there any moving images of, say, War of 1812 veterans? Or Mexican War veterans? Or perhaps any of the General staff of the American Civil War? I have seen film of Civil War veterans taken in 1938 (75th anniversay of Gettysburg) but are there any older films of even older people?75.174.112.209 (talk) 07:21, 19 January 2009 (UTC)\[reply\]
> If you're counting photographic film, not just video footage, then you can get back furthe...
> [@](#):
>
> ```
> I think the question is referring to the oldest person caught on film after filming became technically available (obviously no 1812 veterans would be alive today). I think that's it, but I could be wrong. Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 07:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
>
> In Roundhay Garden Scene, filmed on October 14, 1888, the featured actress Sarah Robinson Whitley was 72 years old, meaning she was born around 1816. I would suggest there may not be too many people born before her recorded on film. Rockpocket 08:08, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
>
> ```
>
> If the IMDB is to be believed, there is some archive footage of Otto von Bismarck, who was born in 1815. Warofdreams talk 11:59, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
> And earlier still - Pope Leo XIII, born 1810, was filmed at the age of 88, in 1898. Apparently he also blessed the camera. Warofdreams talk 12:29, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
>
> [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai8DEWmZF34](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai8DEWmZF34)
>
> With regard to War of 1812 veterans, I can’t find any footage of them alive, but we do have a clip of last surviving veteran Hiram Cronk’s funeral in 1905. 143.167.127.122 (talk) 15:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
>
> If you’re counting photographic film, not just video footage, then you can get back further, but I don’t know how far. Steewi (talk) 23:23, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
>
> On the German wikipedia, we had a fascinating discussion about the earliest born person of whom a photograph exists. We managed to go back to a birth date of around 1746. You can find our results at ([talk](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diskussion:Geschichte_und_Entwicklung_der_Fotografie#Die_.C3.A4ltesten_fotografierten_Menschen)) 11:53, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
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### Author:  [@relesabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/relesabe)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/4 "2012-01-02T23:16:18Z")
> [@Simplicio](#):
>
> Well, the oldest verified lifespan was 122 years. To be born in 1800 and then meet someone late in life who would then lived to 2011 would mean that the average lifespan of the two people involved would have to be 105. So not impossible, though not that likely either (and even less likely that if it happened, the people in question would’ve been aware of it, as the person alive now would’ve had to be very young).
I was thinking it would be a baby with a very old relative and thus maybe not so unlikely that they would have been told about it later and maybe even have a photo.
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### Author:  [@relesabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/relesabe)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/5 "2012-01-02T23:18:14Z")
Very interesting, esp. about the 1746-born person in a photograph – how many people born even years afterward would not have been so captured!
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### Author:  [@relesabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/relesabe)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/6 "2012-01-02T23:50:40Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#):
>
> Fascinating discussion in Wikipedia:
>
> [Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2009 January 19 - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2009_January_19)
This link indicates as of 1999, someone who likely met Hiram Cronk (born in 1800) – his greatt granddaughter was still alive. She was 3 when he died but I bet she met him:
> **[Re: Hiram Cronk - Oneida Co., - Genealogy.com](https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/cronk/241/)**
>
> Cronk: Sue..Hiram is my great great grandfather. My Aunt ... Read more on Genealogy.com!
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/7 "2012-01-03T00:09:25Z")
I’ve mentioned this before but it seems like a story you’d be interested in.
John Tyler, future President of the United States, was born in 1790, when George Washington was President. Tyler married his second wife in 1844 (she was 24 at the time). The couple had a son, Lyon Gardiner Tyler, in 1853 when John Tyler was 63 years old.
Like his father, Lyon married a much younger second wife late in his life. Lyon married his second wife in 1921 and this couple had a son, Harrison Ruffin Tyler, in 1928.
Harrison Tyler, the grandson of a man who was born when Washington was President, is still alive today.
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### Author:  [@relesabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/relesabe)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/8 "2012-01-03T00:24:22Z")
Thanks – I had read about this.
A woman died this year, Huguette Clark a copper heiress who was 104 and her father was born in 1839. I would guess she had the earliest-born father of any living person by quite a bit at the time of her death.
(William Clark was a contemporary of J. D. Rockefeller and his son died 50 years ago at almost 90.)
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### Author:  [@Ben\_Beck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Beck)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/9 "2012-01-05T13:03:34Z")
I think you’ll find it’s Rebecca Clarke, born about 1804, and filmed for a Kinora reel in about 1912; she died in 1914.
See the relevant page of my website: [http://benbeck.co.uk/firsts/movie1.htm](http://benbeck.co.uk/firsts/movie1.htm)
Happy to be corrected.
Ben
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### Author:  [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/10 "2012-01-05T13:38:43Z")
> [@Ben\_Beck](#):
>
> I think you’ll find it’s Rebecca Clarke, born about 1804, and filmed for a Kinora reel in about 1912; she died in 1914.
>
> See the relevant page of my website: [http://benbeck.co.uk/firsts/movie1.htm](http://benbeck.co.uk/firsts/movie1.htm)
>
> Happy to be corrected.
>
> Ben
Once again the Dopers come through with just amazing bits of information.
I am curious as to how a paper based film, given the ease of destruction of early celluloid, managed to survive long enough to make it on to Youtube.
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### Author:  [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/11 "2012-01-05T13:58:38Z")
[Footage of Queen Victoria](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5TAbNR6xKM) (born 24 May 1819).
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### Author:  [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/12 "2012-01-05T14:33:38Z")
> [@relesabe](#):
>
> Very interesting, esp. about the 1746-born person in a photograph – how many people born even years afterward would not have been so captured!
I have [this book](http://www.kentstateuniversitypress.com/2010/the-last-muster-2/) and you may find it interesting: photos of Revolutionary War veterans, some born in the 1740s.
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### Author:  [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/13 "2012-01-05T19:06:50Z")
> [@Ben\_Beck](#):
>
> I think you’ll find it’s Rebecca Clarke, born about 1804, and filmed for a Kinora reel in about 1912; she died in 1914.
>
> See the relevant page of my website: [http://benbeck.co.uk/firsts/movie1.htm](http://benbeck.co.uk/firsts/movie1.htm)
>
> Happy to be corrected.
>
> Ben
The linked videos are absolutely fascinating. I sort of got sucked into surfing around youtube on the links of other footage and ended up watching Tsar Nicholas and his family [may the lord bless and keep the tsar … far away from us!] and then from the link for the interview of the Civil War vet got over to recordings of the rebel yell.
What can I say, I am a sucker for nifty bits of history.
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### Author:  [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/14 "2012-01-05T21:26:31Z")
If you can trust IMDB, [Cornelius Vanderbilt](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1535626/)(1794–1877) appeared in archive footage.
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### Author:  [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/15 "2012-01-05T21:48:06Z")
Actually, that’s somewhat unlikely, since Muybridge’s photos(the first ever movie) were made in 1877.
More plausibly, [George Müller](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1049123/)(1805–1898) with an IMDB credit as “self” , presumably archive footage.
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### Author:  [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/16 "2012-01-05T21:58:19Z")
Not the oldest, but definitely of historical interest: the Wikipedia page for [Dolley Madison](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolley_Madison) (born in 1768) includes her photograph.
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### Author:  [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/17 "2017-02-23T13:08:40Z")
For an actual professional actor, as distinct from royalty, celebrities and ordinary people, **[Harry Braham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Braham)** is interesting. An Englishman born in 1850, he appeared in the unendurable ‘ **Birth of a Nation** ’ ( still of great value to those interested in prolonged handshaking ).
His father was Jewish and his mother Anglican, but as he was baptised in St-Martin-In-The-Fields, I’ll guess he was raised in his mother’s faith. It says he was the highest paid member of his profession in the late seventies ( Music Hall entertainer ), and died destitute.
He appeared at the **[Crystal Palace](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crystal_Palace)**. I had no idea they did entertainment, although they certainly had enough room.
I have also just learnt there is a Crystal Palace Football Club .
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### Author:  [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2017, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/18 "2017-02-23T15:08:40Z")
> [@Ben\_Beck](#):
>
> I think you’ll find it’s Rebecca Clarke, born about 1804, and filmed for a Kinora reel in about 1912; she died in 1914.
>
> See the relevant page of my website: [http://benbeck.co.uk/firsts/movie1.htm](http://benbeck.co.uk/firsts/movie1.htm)
>
> Happy to be corrected.
>
> Ben
I know it has been 5 years, but I often visit your site and love all the “firsts” you have recorded on it. It’s great.
> [@Evan\_Drake](#):
>
> For an actual professional actor, as distinct from royalty, celebrities and ordinary people, **[Harry Braham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Braham)** is interesting. An Englishman born in 1850, he appeared in the unendurable ‘ **Birth of a Nation** ’ ( still of great value to those interested in prolonged handshaking ).
>
> His father was Jewish and his mother Anglican, but as he was baptised in St-Martin-In-The-Fields, I’ll guess he was raised in his mother’s faith. It says he was the highest paid member of his profession in the late seventies ( Music Hall entertainer ), and died destitute.
> He appeared at the **[Crystal Palace](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crystal_Palace)**. I had no idea they did entertainment, although they certainly had enough room.
>
> I have also just learnt there is a Crystal Palace Football Club .
It has been 5 years, but even 5 years ago, we found a 1804 person, which beats your guy by almost 50 years.
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### Author:  [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/19 "2017-02-23T16:01:42Z")
Certainly; but I was pointing out a professional film actor, not someone who laudably got filmed.
And according to that site she was probably born later:
_NB Rebecca Allen’s baptism has now been located, and it is clear she can’t have been quite as old as she claimed. One of six known children of Thomas and Mary Allen, she was baptised on 14 October 1810 at Houghton Regis, Bedfordshire—just outside Dunstable. The 1841 census gives her age as 30, which is consistent with this; if she had indeed been born in 1804 her age in this census should have been given as 35, as enumerators were instructed to round down to the nearest five years. While it is not inconceivable that she was born before 2 March (which would make her older than Leo XIII), a seven month interval between birth and baptism is longer than would be expected.]_
**[Ben Beck](http://benbeck.co.uk/firsts/2_The_Human_Subject/movie1h.htm)**
Which leaves Pope Leo XIII b. 1810 as the earliest known filmed.
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### Author:  [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-birthdate-of-person-on-film/608189/20 "2017-02-23T16:14:19Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#):
>
> Which leaves Pope Leo XIII b. 1810 as the earliest known filmed.
In post #15 I listed George Müller, born 1805.
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