# earliest known old/new testaments **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 15, 2000, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-known-old-new-testaments/45796 "2000-12-15T20:02:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AndyKeats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f4b2a3/32.png) [@AndyKeats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyKeats)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2000, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-known-old-new-testaments/45796/1 "2000-12-15T20:02:27Z")
What are the oldest copies of the old and new testaments that have been discovered? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2000, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-known-old-new-testaments/45796/2 "2000-12-15T23:35:30Z")
Dunno offhand, but maybe somebody in the Friday night group will know. \<\< bump from page 2 \>\> ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2000, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-known-old-new-testaments/45796/3 "2000-12-16T01:17:58Z")
What about the Quaran? Aren’t there editions in Saudi Arabia that were copied from the original (some word I don’t know goes here- basically a set of writings that people jotted down shortly after the passing of the Prophet, when they realized that writing the account of his life / pronouncements made during such, was a good idea) text? Or are they second generation. Not sure, but I think that this is a valid extension of the OP, not an outright hijack. Hope someone knows. ---
**Author:** ![Opus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/858c86/32.png) [@Opus1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opus1)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2000, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-known-old-new-testaments/45796/4 "2000-12-16T02:53:35Z")
Rhythmdvl: The earliest editions of the Qur’an were discovered as recently as 1972 in an old mosque in Yemen. They differ from most later copies of the Qur’an, which date back to the mid 8th century at the earliest. See the Atlantic Monthly article here: [http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/99jan/koran.htm](http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/99jan/koran.htm) OP: The earliest actual copies of the Old Testament that we have are the Dead Sea Scrolls, dating from 200 BCE to 100 CE. However, the Septuagint was translated in 250 BCE. Thus the OT clearly existed before that date, or there would have been nothing to translate. The earliest copies we have of the NT documents date to either the 3rd or 4th century CE. Very few of them are complete. The earliest copy we have of Mark is a few square inches, covers only several verses, and dates to the 3rd century. Full texts don’t exist until much later. But we do have many letters by early church fathers which quote the gospels, so once again, they must have existed before the letters, which were written in the mid 2nd century. ---
**Author:** ![drpepper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@drpepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drpepper)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2000, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-known-old-new-testaments/45796/5 "2000-12-16T03:02:26Z")
IIRC, the Book of Kells, on display at Trinity College in Dublin, is the earliest complete (?) written something or other (Gospels? NT?); something Biblical, at any rate. Think I’ll go look that one up. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2000, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-known-old-new-testaments/45796/6 "2000-12-16T03:31:53Z")
You could try [this site](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15367a.htm). “Partners with Single Catholics Online” apparently. For the Book of Kells, [try here](http://www.osl.state.or.us/csimages/kells/bk.htmtry). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2000, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-known-old-new-testaments/45796/7 "2000-12-16T07:33:48Z")
I’m not sure about the Old Testament. We have original copies of most works among the Qumran/Dead Sea Scrolls that would date to the late 2d century BCE (I think). I don’t know whether anything older has survived. The oldest piece of the New Testament is a fragment of the Gospel of John dated to around 127 CE. The oldest complete manuscript of the New Testament is the Codex Vaticanus from the early 3d century (although the Codex Sinaiticus is only a very few years younger). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2000, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-known-old-new-testaments/45796/8 "2000-12-16T07:35:07Z")
Vaticanus and Sinaiticus are early **4th** century, not 3d. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2000, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-known-old-new-testaments/45796/9 "2000-12-16T18:32:30Z")
Vaticanus is _not_ complete. The “end” of the manuscript has been lost, carrying away the end of the letter to the Hebrews, the letters to Timothy, Titus, and Philemon, and Revelation. Sinaiticus does have the complete New Testament, plus Barnabas and part of the Shepherd of Hermas.