# Early film footage of historical figures/Queen Victoria footage discovered
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [May 28, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643 "2019-05-28T14:45:42Z")
**Posts on this page:** 18
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/1 "2019-05-28T14:45:42Z")
High-quality film footage, dating from 1900, [has been discovered](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-48427315/queen-victoria-as-you-ve-never-seen-her-before) of Queen Victoria on her last trip to Ireland. She is seen smiling, nodding and wearing sunglasses.
It’s a fascinating window into the past. Victoria was born two hundred years ago in 1819, just four years after the Battle of Waterloo, and while Napoleon Bonaparte was still alive.
The film footage is 119 years old. Venturing further back in time by the same length of time, one would be in the year 1781, when Britain was defeated in America during the War of Independence. Mozart would have been only around twenty-four years old.
It would be interesting to see other early film footage of historical figures, if anyone can provide any links.
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2019, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/2 "2019-05-28T14:51:50Z")
Here’s the only known film of Mark Twain, shot in 1909. He’s walking around his last home, “Stormfield” in Redding, Connecticut (which burned down in 1923). Ken Burns used this to open his documentary on Twain.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/videos/category/arts-culture/the-only-footage-of-mark-twain-in-existence/ https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-only-known-footage-of-mark-twain-just-got-way-bette-1640814322
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/3 "2019-05-28T14:58:08Z")
Here’s the swearing-in of McKinley in 1897. as the video observes, we was sworn in by Grover Cleveland, which makes Cleveland the first US president on film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO\_aOe\_FM2Q
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/4 "2019-05-28T15:02:32Z")
Pope Leo XIII in 1896 – claimed to be the oldest footage of a Pope
Here's Queen Victoria from four years before the footage in the OP, but it's not as good quality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-FGl2ER6rI
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/5 "2019-05-28T15:06:41Z")
Here’s footage of French President Felix Faure in the 1890s
Here's his funeral in 1899 https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060000082
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/6 "2019-05-28T23:39:13Z")
Thanks for the links. Mark Twain looks pretty cool.
While not of historical figures, the [colorized film of Berlin in 1900/1914](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-m9A8mY-U0) is good picture quality and the color helps bring it to life.
It’s strange to think that, if human civilization survives for another few hundred or thousand years, future humans will look back on film footage of us today in almost photo-realistic high definition. Surely any future gains in picture quality will be comparatively minimal to what we have now. So, for us, the grainy scenes in old film footage seem like long-ago faded memories, but future people will see film footage of history that will look fresh as new, even though it might be hundreds or thousands of years old.
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### Author:  [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2019, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/7 "2019-05-29T02:04:42Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> It’s strange to think that, if human civilization survives for another few hundred or thousand years, future humans will look back on film footage of us today in almost photo-realistic high definition.
[You are very, very, very optimistic](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Digital+dark+age%22&oq=%22Digital+dark+age%22&gs_l=mobile-heirloom-hp.12..0l3j0i22i30l2.1405.17638.0.18954.19.18.0.1.1.0.1275.7472.3j1j2j3j2j4j0j2.17.0....0...1.1.34.mobile-heirloom-hp..10.9.3033.sOJIb5XjV80).
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### Author:  [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2019, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/8 "2019-05-29T03:37:07Z")
So what is Queen Victoria’s Bacon number?
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2019, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/9 "2019-05-29T04:18:57Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#):
>
> [You are very, very, very optimistic](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Digital+dark+age%22&oq=%22Digital+dark+age%22&gs_l=mobile-heirloom-hp.12..0l3j0i22i30l2.1405.17638.0.18954.19.18.0.1.1.0.1275.7472.3j1j2j3j2j4j0j2.17.0....0...1.1.34.mobile-heirloom-hp..10.9.3033.sOJIb5XjV80).
I wonder what format Youtube stores its videos in?
> [@markn\_1](#):
>
> So what is Queen Victoria’s Bacon number?
[Here’s](https://www.historyextra.com/period/victorian/queen-victoria-met-who-famous-victorians-alexander-graham-bell-charlotte-bronte-buffalo-bill/) a list of some of the people Queen Victoria met:
Johann Strauss I, 1838
Charlotte Brontë, 1843
Alexander Graham Bell, 1878
Sarah Bernhardt, 1893
Buffalo Bill, 1887
Arthur Sullivan of Gilbert and Sullivan, 1888
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### Author:  [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2019, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/10 "2019-05-29T09:00:46Z")
Not exactly what you’re looking for, but related :
[Johannes Brahms playing the piano in December 1889](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRcMPxbaDAY)
[A recording of Tchaikovsky speaking with friends in 1890.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DEEdFLjUiw)
Of course, sound quality is horrendous, but once you get used to it, it is very moving.
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### Author:  [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/11 "2019-05-30T14:15:22Z")
This was recently discovered: A 1931 film of a car being driven by [Albert Einstein](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ9rWGa-O_U)
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### Author:  [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/12 "2019-05-30T18:31:21Z")
> [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](#):
>
> Not exactly what you’re looking for, but related :
>
> [Johannes Brahms playing the piano in December 1889](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRcMPxbaDAY)
> [A recording of Tchaikovsky speaking with friends in 1890.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DEEdFLjUiw)
>
> Of course, sound quality is horrendous, but once you get used to it, it is very moving.
In a similar vein, [sound recordings of Otto von Bismarck](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czko31-6O8I) from 1889 when he was still chancellor. He speaks German, English, Latin and French in that short passage, including citing the Marseillaise!
They have been rediscovered in 2012. ([New York Times article](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/31/science/bismarcks-voice-among-restored-edison-recordings.html))
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### Author:  [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/13 "2019-05-30T18:48:15Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> While not of historical figures, the [colorized film of Berlin in 1900/1914](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-m9A8mY-U0) is good picture quality and the color helps bring it to life.
Some that’s actually taken in Munich. Indeed that’s where there’s the incredible aspect - though that version interrupts the crucial shot. [This version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hoLmtL5-E0) is better in that respect. The striking bit comes at about 1:21.
So the backs of a line of army trumpeters and a guy off to one side with his back to the camera, looking down on the crowd?
Well, the location is the Odeonsplatz and the date is August 2nd 1914, with the crowd celebrating Germany’s entry into WWI. The guy up with the musicians is believed to be Heinrich Hoffman, a professional photographer. The most famous picture he took that day is [this one](https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/young-hitler-ww1-1914/). The angles match it being taken from that vantage point and there’s even other shots in the film that are very similar to parts of the photograph.
The twist? As that page notes, one of the more jubilant figures buried in the crowd in the photo appears to be a young, then completely unknown, Adolf Hitler.
Hoffman later went on to become the official photographer to the Nazi Party and was instrumental in helping Hitler craft his public image. At some stage he happened to notice this figure in this old photograph of his. As a result a lot of mileage was got out of it in party propaganda.
Is it Hitler? Both him and Hoffman always claimed it was. Without checking, I believe there is some independent evidence that he was in the square that day. It’s occasionally been suggested that Hoffman doctored his old photo, but that’s not been widely accepted.
Regarding the film footage, the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong that that is Hoffman in the shot. He’s looking at another part of the crowd, so it’s not him in the act of actually taking the photo.
The obvious question is then is Hitler visible in any of the filmed shots of the crowd? The answer appears to be no. People - including myself - have looked, but without finding anything.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [May 31, 2019, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/14 "2019-05-31T02:53:46Z")
Regarding early sound recordings, [here’s a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znKNQXo58pE) of the first known recording of a human voice from 1860, and a sound restoration of it. The improvement in sound quality through the restoration is amazing compared to the original source (which is why I’m retaining a modicum of scepticism). However, it’s still in the wrong speed and sounds like a child or woman, and it should instead be played at half speed, whereupon it would sound like a man singing much more slowly. The slowed down version can be heard [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YABES_D9xfE&feature=youtu.be&t=68), but in low sound quality.
I have old recordings in my music collection and have sometimes wondered if it might be possible to improve their sound quality even further one day.
> [@bonzer](#):
>
> Some that’s actually taken in Munich. Indeed that’s where there’s the incredible aspect - though that version interrupts the crucial shot. [This version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hoLmtL5-E0) is better in that respect. The striking bit comes at about 1:21.
> So the backs of a line of army trumpeters and a guy off to one side with his back to the camera, looking down on the crowd?
> Well, the location is the Odeonsplatz and the date is August 2nd 1914, with the crowd celebrating Germany’s entry into WWI. The guy up with the musicians is believed to be Heinrich Hoffman, a professional photographer. The most famous picture he took that day is [this one](https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/young-hitler-ww1-1914/). The angles match it being taken from that vantage point and there’s even other shots in the film that are very similar to parts of the photograph.
>
> The twist? As that page notes, one of the more jubilant figures buried in the crowd in the photo appears to be a young, then completely unknown, Adolf Hitler.
> Hoffman later went on to become the official photographer to the Nazi Party and was instrumental in helping Hitler craft his public image. At some stage he happened to notice this figure in this old photograph of his. As a result a lot of mileage was got out of it in party propaganda.
> Is it Hitler? Both him and Hoffman always claimed it was. Without checking, I believe there is some independent evidence that he was in the square that day. It’s occasionally been suggested that Hoffman doctored his old photo, but that’s not been widely accepted.
>
> Regarding the film footage, the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong that that is Hoffman in the shot. He’s looking at another part of the crowd, so it’s not him in the act of actually taking the photo.
> The obvious question is then is Hitler visible in any of the filmed shots of the crowd? The answer appears to be no. People - including myself - have looked, but without finding anything.
I’ve seen the alleged Hitler crowd photo before, so that’s interesting to read how it ties in to the video.
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### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [May 31, 2019, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/15 "2019-05-31T12:45:14Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#):
>
> This was recently discovered: A 1931 film of a car being driven by [Albert Einstein](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ9rWGa-O_U)
…or was the Earth merely moving under his car?
---
### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [May 31, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/16 "2019-05-31T14:53:20Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#):
>
> This was recently discovered: A 1931 film of a car being driven by [Albert Einstein](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ9rWGa-O_U)
Well, at least it’s of Einstein sitting in a stationary car in a studio with footage placed behind him of stuff going by.
as **Ludovic** observes, it’s all relative.
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### Author:  [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)
#### Post date: [May 31, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/17 "2019-05-31T15:00:27Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> It’s strange to think that, if human civilization survives for another few hundred or thousand years, future humans will look back on film footage of us today in almost photo-realistic high definition.
I don’t know about that. Nearly all “film footage” today is only in digital form, from beginning to end, so the vast majority of media from at least the past 10 years will be unreadable without the right software, or at least knowledge of the encoding formats.
Just last year, while cleaning up in my attic home office, I found ZIP discs of computer data backups I made circa 2000. I no longer have a ZIP drive, and even if I did, the data that was backed up may or may not be compatible with any current software.
I’ve already lost stuff that I would be interested in retrieving. I discovered an old schedule/planner book (physical paper!) from 1997, which was a nice trip down memory lane to see the contact info, appointments, etc., I had back then. But a few years after that, I went digital with a Palm Pilot… Nearly my schedule/date type stuff for about 8 or 9 years, before I switched to using Google Calendar, was on a Palm platform, and I have nothing to read those files any more, even if I still had them.
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [May 31, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-film-footage-of-historical-figures-queen-victoria-footage-discovered/834643/18 "2019-05-31T17:25:31Z")
> [@robardin](#):
>
> I don’t know about that. Nearly all “film footage” today is only in digital form, from beginning to end, so the vast majority of media from at least the past 10 years will be unreadable without the right software, or at least knowledge of the encoding formats.
>
> Just last year, while cleaning up in my attic home office, I found ZIP discs of computer data backups I made circa 2000. I no longer have a ZIP drive, and even if I did, the data that was backed up may or may not be compatible with any current software.
>
> I’ve already lost stuff that I would be interested in retrieving. I discovered an old schedule/planner book (physical paper!) from 1997, which was a nice trip down memory lane to see the contact info, appointments, etc., I had back then. But a few years after that, I went digital with a Palm Pilot… Nearly my schedule/date type stuff for about 8 or 9 years, before I switched to using Google Calendar, was on a Palm platform, and I have nothing to read those files any more, even if I still had them.
It’s not as if this is some new, unforeseen problem. I remember reading an article about the vast quantities of U S Government data that was now inaccessible because it was stored on computer drives to which the formats were no longer remembered. It was in _The American Heritage Magazine of Invention and Technology_.
In the 1980s.