# Early mainstream media portrayals of LGBT characters **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 19, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771 "2016-06-19T14:50:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/21 "2016-06-19T20:28:13Z")
The 1931 German film Mädchen in uniform is about a female teacher and a boarding school student falling in love. The movie is pretty clear on what kind of relationship the two have. No innuendo. > **[Mädchen in Uniform](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A4dchen_in_Uniform)** > > Mädchen in Uniform ("Girls in Uniform") is a 1931 German romantic drama film based on the play Gestern und heute (Yesterday and Today) by Christa Winsloe and directed by Leontine Sagan with artistic direction from Carl Froelich, who also funded the film. Winsloe also wrote the screenplay and was on the set during filming. The film remains an international cult classic. > Manuela von Meinhardis, whose mother had died when she was young and whose father serves in the military, is enrolled at an al... ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/22 "2016-06-19T20:34:18Z")
Robert Redford was supposed to play a closeted gay movie star in INSIDE DAISY CLOVER, setting up the plot point of him marrying Natalie Wood’s character for some wholesome publicity. Redford apparently insisted that the character be portrayed as _bisexual_ rather than gay, which is arguably better for this thread: it plays out as the story of a guy who just wants to be rich and famous and instead of being faithful to his wife wants to enjoy bedding a string of women – which, granted, isn’t a positive portrayal; but, as negative portrayals go, it’s one that straight guys in the audience could nod at, amirite? So you get that buy-in, and, oh, yeah, he also enjoys bedding men. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/23 "2016-06-19T20:54:53Z")
Mary McCarthy’s 1963 novel _The Group_ featured Lakey, who after a trip to Europe, was revealed to be a lesbian. The other members of the group not only were conflicted about Lakey’s sexuality but also upset that her lover was not as smart as the rest of them. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/24 "2016-06-19T21:05:51Z")
Norman Lear’s short-lived 1975 series _Hot l Baltimore_ had an explicitly gay couple, George and Gordon. I believe it was the first American series to have an explicitly gay couple as regular characters. (To clarify, by explicit I don’t mean they engaged in onscreen sex. I mean that the show openly acknowledged that the characters were gay rather than just implying it.) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/25 "2016-06-19T21:41:49Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > RealityChuck writes: > > \> Note the guy two ahead of him. > > To call this subtle is to put it mildly. Had you not mentioned this, I would never have guessed that it implied homosexuality. I’m still not sure what’s meant to be implied here. Well, it was more obvious at the time, with the “swishy” stereotype. The character also appears in the background of other scenes, too, which probably would make it clearer. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/26 "2016-06-19T22:35:24Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > [Bringing Up Baby](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bringing_Up_Baby), 1938: > > In the 1939 _The Wizard of Oz_, the Cowardly Lion is not stated to be gay, but Bert Lahr’s portrayal fits a lot of stereotypes. > > In the 1941 _The Maltese Falcon_, Peter Lorre plays Joel Cairo with a lot of stereotypical mannerisms. When Sam Spade refers to Wilmer Cook as a Casper Gutman’s “gunsel”, the censors assumed he meant “gunman”. Actually, it was prison slang for “catamite”. In the pre-code 1931 version of _The Maltese Falcon_ Joel Cairo is played by Otto Matieson who also displays gay mannerisms. Also the relationship between Cook and Gutman is far more strongly indicated than in the later film. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/27 "2016-06-20T03:25:06Z")
Ed Wood’s Glen or Glenda was another film about transvestites, by a transvestite. There were also numerous character actors and comic actors who were believed to be gay by most viewers (and usually were), like Paul Lynde, Charles Nelson Reilly, Jonathan Frid, etc. Most people believed Jonathan Harris (Dr. Smith on Lost in Space) to be gay based on his mannerisms, but he probably was not (married over 60 years and a child, not much evidence other than mannerisms). He was the son of Jewish Russian immigrants who grew up in the Bronx and adopted the persona of a somewhat prissy British aristocrat. He eventually evolved into a humorous but somewhat likable character. Lesbian characters were not uncommon in films, either - Claire Bloom’s character in Robert Wise’s _The Haunting_ is broadly hinted to be lesbian but is not presented unsympathetically. Claude Rain’s character in Casablanca is often assumed to be gay, although Rains himself was not. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/28 "2016-06-20T03:38:11Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > Claude Rain’s character in Casablanca is often assumed to be gay, although Rains himself was not. No doubt that’s why Captain Renault is always manipulating to have beautiful women owe him a favor for helping them get out of Casablanca. In other words, you got the wrong guy. Did you mean Major Strasser, or Peter Lorre’s character (of whose sexual preference I have seen no indication at all), or perhaps Cuddles Sakall’s character, or Leonid Kinskey’s, or really anyone else (except Rick, I suppose) would be more believable. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/29 "2016-06-20T03:38:17Z")
The novel version of **Myra Breckenridge** , about a male-to-female transitioned trans character, “came out” in 1968. The movie came out in 1970. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/30 "2016-06-20T03:49:57Z")
Officers visit a gay bar in the movie “The Boston Stranger”, from 1968. When I saw Alfred Hitchcock’s “Rope”, from the late 1940s, it was EXTREMELY obvious to me that the two main characters were a gay couple. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/31 "2016-06-20T03:54:51Z")
And viewers of that time would have known that it was based on the murderers Leopold and Loeb, who were gay. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/32 "2016-06-20T04:01:36Z")
Here’s a list of the 118 films mentioned in _The Celluloid Closet_, which the OP can look through to decide which could be considered the first positive references to homosexuality: > **[All films mentioned in The Celluloid Closet](https://letterboxd.com/lagerlout/list/all-films-mentioned-in-the-celluloid-closet/)** > > The Celluloid Closet (1995) directed by Rob Epstein and Jeffrey Friedman is a great look at the history of queer cinema. Interviews from all sorts of cinema luminaries as well as queer writers, journalists and critics. Great viewing if you're keen on... ---
**Author:** ![journeyman\_southpaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5e9695/32.png) [@journeyman\_southpaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/journeyman_southpaw)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/33 "2016-06-20T04:26:28Z")
[_Anders als die Andern_ (Different from the Others)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Different_from_the_Others), a German film from 1919. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/34 "2016-06-20T04:31:29Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > And viewers of that time would have known that it was based on the murderers Leopold and Loeb, who were gay. Well, they reportedly had some sort of sexual relationship, but I don’t think either openly identified as gay and IIRC in his memoir _Life Plus 99 Years_ Leopold denied that they were lovers. But regardless of what their true sexual orientations might have been, you’re right that many viewers would have associated the two with homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/35 "2016-06-20T05:06:45Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > Lesbian characters were not uncommon in films, either - Claire Bloom’s character in Robert Wise’s _The Haunting_ is broadly hinted to be lesbian but is not presented unsympathetically. Not Claire Bloom’s character-- Julie Harris’s. On an episode of The Mary Tyler Moore Show, Phyllis’s brother is revealed to be gay in a “bring down the house” line, followed by an even funnier line by Phyllis. There is nothing whatsoever negative, no stereotypically gay about the brother (Ben, IIRC). The joke is that Phyllis thinks her single brother is a great catch, and has been trying to set him up with Mary, whom she likes, but instead, he hits it off with Rhoda, whom she does not like. At the end of the show, Rhoda assures Phyllis that she and Ben are just friends, and she wouldn’t consider dating him. Phyllis, who is never very logical, immediately jumps on Rhoda with “Why not? he’s handsome, smart, talented, makes a good living,” and Rhoda interrupts to say “He’s gay.” The biggest laugh in the history of the show ensues. The Phyllis says “Oh thank gawd!” Practically every family sitcom has an episode with a tomboy who fools some boy into thinking she’s a boy. By the end, she discovers she likes boys “that way,” and we see her in a dress for the first time. It’s kind of a junior version of the books and movies where all the lesbian needs is a good man to straighten her out. I had some other really pithy example, but not it eludes me. Oh well; I’ll be back. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/36 "2016-06-20T05:32:52Z")
There’s a _Sanford and Son_ episode from its first season called “The Piano Movers” (1972), in which a principal character is a gay antique collector (the guy who has a piano that must be moved). Fred Sanford makes cracks about the guy being gay, but if I recall correctly the characterization is not entirely negative. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/37 "2016-06-20T12:55:04Z")
Dunno what category you’d assign to the various pairs of devoted spinster companions who are affectionately portrayed as eccentric but likeable in a number of 20th-century English murder mysteries, but are not actually called lesbians (and in some cases may well not actually have been intended as lesbians). E.g., Miss Hinchcliffe and Miss Murgatroyd in Agatha Christie’s 1950 _A Murder Is Announced_, and Miss Dawson and Miss Whittaker in (the backstory of) Dorothy Sayers’s 1927 _Unnatural Death_. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/38 "2016-06-20T13:07:53Z")
Going by books rather than movies - Carmilla had a pretty expressly (for the time) lesbian relationship, albeit between a woman and a vampire. It dates to 1871/72. > **[Carmilla](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmilla)** > > Carmilla is an 1872 Gothic novella by Irish author Sheridan Le Fanu and one of the early works of vampire fiction, predating Bram Stoker's Dracula (1897) by 26 years. First published as a serial in The Dark Blue (1871–72), the story is narrated by a young woman preyed upon by a female vampire named Carmilla, later revealed to be Mircalla, Countess Karnstein (Carmilla is an anagram of Mircalla). The character is a prototypical example of the lesbian vampire, expressing romantic desires towar Car... The 1930s movie version edited out any lesbian references, but the 1960 movie Blood and Roses didn’t: > **[Blood and Roses](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_and_Roses)** > > Blood and Roses (French: ...Et mourir de plaisir (Le sang et la rose), lit. '...And die of pleasure (The blood and the rose)') is a 1960 erotic horror film directed by Roger Vadim. It is based on the novella Carmilla (1872) by Irish writer Sheridan Le Fanu, shifting the book's setting in 19th-century Styria to the film's 20th-century Italy. > Set in the modern day at a European estate, Carmilla is torn emotionally by the engagement of her friend Georgia to her cousin Leopoldo. It is hard to tell... ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/39 "2016-06-20T13:10:16Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Dunno what category you’d assign to the various pairs of devoted spinster companions who are affectionately portrayed as eccentric but likeable in a number of 20th-century English murder mysteries, but are not actually called lesbians (and in some cases may well not actually have been intended as lesbians). > > E.g., Miss Hinchcliffe and Miss Murgatroyd in Agatha Christie’s 1950 _A Murder Is Announced_ IIRC, Agatha Christie didn’t _intend_ to intend them to be lesbians; she based them on two real-life eccentric-but-likable women who lived together and had no use for men and who Christie apparently didn’t think were lesbians. So if Christie intended the characters to be based on those women, and didn’t bother to make any changes, and those women were lesbians – it’s all a hall of mirrors! ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/40 "2016-06-20T15:22:43Z")
[The famous Peter Lorre character from “Maltese Falcon”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGuNGXmQZSE) (1939). The clip starts after this point, but when Humphrey Bogart’s secretary is introducing him, she snidely says “He’s _artistic_” and exchanges a knowing glance with him. His sexuality is never explicitly named, but it is fairly obvious and intentional. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771.md?page=3)