# Early mainstream media portrayals of LGBT characters **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 19, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771 "2016-06-19T14:50:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/81 "2016-06-24T16:58:26Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > So far all you’ve shown in your cite is that Ebert had a bug up his ass about this character. Nothing about anyone else agreeing with this view or coming up with it on their own (it isn’t clear who some of the Q’s were from, but some of the film quotes there are just incorrect). Oh, and you can save your made-up insult words for use in a more appropriate forum. It’s not a made-up word, Roderick. ([Urban Dictionary: dwart](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dwart)) If you insult someone, don’t get butt-hurt if someone responds in kind. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/82 "2016-06-24T17:11:41Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > So far all you’ve shown in your cite is that Ebert had a bug up his ass about this character. Nothing about anyone else agreeing with this view or coming up with it on their own. Okay, if you can keep it civil… Ebert is the most prominent critic but hardly the only one to suggest that there were intentional gay overtones in Rain’s performance, that were suggested in both the dialogue and Rain’s performance. (Rains himself was rather epically heterosexual.) Here’s a few other critics and reviewers have come to the same conclusion: [http://www.comicmix.com/2012/04/08/john-ostrander-casablanca-at-70-as-time-goes-by/](http://www.comicmix.com/2012/04/08/john-ostrander-casablanca-at-70-as-time-goes-by/) : “What is also interesting to me is that Claude Rains’ character, Captain Renault, is gay. That certainly wouldn’t have been stated but, despite Renault’s compulsive womanizing, I think it’s there. In describing Rick to Ilsa the first time Renault meets her, he says “if I were a woman, I would be in love with Rick.” I think Renault is also deeply in the closet; the above described womanizing is his attempts to hide his homosexuality, especially from himself. He defends Rick to the Nazis, he covers for him, and, in the end, walks away into the night with him. For me, Renault’s sexual orientation just adds another layer to an already fascinating character.” [Character Name: Captain Louis Renault Appears in:...](http://bi-characters.tumblr.com/post/119927560742/character-name-captain-louis-renault-appears-in:) "Character Name: Captain Louis Renault Appears in: Casablanca Commonly interpreted as: Straight or Gay Many people think that Captain Renault is gay because of sub textual implications. Others argue that he is straight because he textually sleeps with and shows attraction to women. Utter nonsense, obviously he is bisexual. His mannerisms, demeanour and speech patterns are clear examples of Hays Code era queer coding. There are also a few lines that imply interest in men, more specifically Rick Blaine, such as when he describes Rick as “the sort of man who, if I were a woman, and I were not around, I should be in love with Rick.” Later he says to Rick: “She was asking after you in a way that made me extremely jealous.” Whether deliberate or not, that line can be taken to mean jealous of Rick, or jealous of Ilsa. Or both. When Rick describes Renault, he says “he’s like any other man, only more so.” That could mean a million things, but one reading could be a reference to multi-sexuality. They even managed to work in a fairly explicit reference, disguised as a joke. Rick asks a girl why she’s at the club and she says that she came with Captain Renault, to which Rick replies “I should have known.” Then she says her husband is there also and Rick snarks “Captain Renault is getting broad-minded.” And then of course there’s the “beginning of a beautiful friendship” ending, where, despite spending the whole movie keeping out of the line of fire by co-operating with the Nazis and insisting that his top priority is himself, when faced with the prospect of arresting Rick for aiding Victor’s escape and murdering Major Strasser, Renault has a sudden Heel-Face Turn and leaves the relative safety of Casablanca and goes with Rick to join the war effort. Sure, he could have just changed his mind, but that’s a pretty big and sudden change. One could easily interpret that it may have been partially due to him having feelings for Rick." [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/Casablanca:](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/Casablanca:) “Ambiguously Gay: Louis Renault. He has this perpetual self-pleased, cheery smile and jovial attitude, appears to enjoy being around Rick a lot, and drops Ho Yay moments every second scene. Granted, he seems to enjoy his lots with chicks here and there, maybe is playing the French stereotype a bit too much — maybe a Frasier-like foppish straight, or maybe it’s If It’s You, It’s Okay, but that’s where the “ambiguously” part plays in, isn’t? Rick: Renault’s getting broad-minded.” Again, it’s not a big deal and like most attempts to create gay characters at the time and work around the censors, the filmmakers and to be. Bogart’s character pretended to be gay in the scene in the bookstore in “The Big Sleep”, which he did by putting on glasses and adopting a slight lisp. (As the director confirmed in an interview.) You didn’t have to hut audiences over the head back then to suggest a character was bisexual or gay. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/83 "2016-06-24T19:00:36Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > In **Top Gun** (1986), the protagonist is a secretly gay fighter pilot, along with many of his fellow flyers. It was all treated quite respectfully and tastefully, even the volleyball orgy scene. I recall a purported quote by Val Kilmer when he was asked if he’d played any gay characters, saying, “Other than in _Top Gun_?” ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/84 "2016-06-24T23:58:24Z")
**Arizona Mike** , I rescind “lazy and thoughtless” since you find it uncivil, although I find your cites of mixed value and still unconvincing to me. Here are my objections to this analysis, especially in the context of this thread: 1. You could make these kinds of claims for tons of movie characters in this era, to the point where it becomes “so what?” If one is looking for an LGBT character, to be notable it should be something where it makes a difference to the movie or to the portrayal. Not the case here. (I realize this is not precisely what the OP asked for) 2. To elaborate on my earlier post, you don’t need a bi orientation for Renault to explain anything that he says or does, and adding the supposition of a bi orientation adds nothing to the movie, except perhaps the tendency to titter at inappropriate moments. 3. I don’t like Renault (serial sexual molester, Nazi bootlicker) as a positive or even non-negative LGBT character (granting for the sake of argument the bi orientation that I challenge above). He’s a rank opportunist; he only protects Rick at the end because he knows the Nazis well enough to see that his own survival is now at serious risk. Anyway, I grant that I have beaten this character to death. Perhaps this kind of issue could be an interesting topic for a separate thread. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/85 "2016-06-25T02:50:32Z")
Arizona Mike writes: \> Bogart’s character pretended to be gay in the scene in the bookstore in “The Big \> Sleep”, which he did by putting on glasses and adopting a slight lisp. (As the \> director confirmed in an interview.) Perhaps there is a subgroup of people who can see the implication that the character is trying to act like he’s gay. Perhaps that subgroup includes the director. I still don’t think most people got the impression that he’s gay from this scene: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/-sNhPdJFZcQ/hqdefault.jpg "You do sell books? - The Big Sleep (1946)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sNhPdJFZcQ) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/86 "2016-06-25T03:14:15Z")
It was 1946. If “most people” could have told he was supposed to be gay, they would have had to reshoot the scene. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/87 "2016-06-25T05:03:15Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Arizona Mike writes: > > \> Bogart’s character pretended to be gay in the scene in the bookstore in “The Big > \> Sleep”, which he did by putting on glasses and adopting a slight lisp. (As the > \> director confirmed in an interview.) > > Perhaps there is a subgroup of people who can see the implication that the character is trying to act like he’s gay. Perhaps that subgroup includes the director. I still don’t think most people got the impression that he’s gay from this scene: > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sNhPdJFZcQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sNhPdJFZcQ) Not sure how old you are, but different times, different cultural references back then than now. The director did say he told Bogart to act like he was a homosexual in that scene. This was an era when there was a category of comedians called “Nance” (for “Nancy”) comedians, who were considered funny because they acted like they were gay, or “sissies.” It was understood by people back then, even if not all of them were exactly clear who homosexuals were or what they did, exactly. (There were a lot more innocent people. back then.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/88 "2016-06-25T10:02:37Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > Not sure how old you are, but different times, different cultural references back then than now. The director did say he told Bogart to act like he was a homosexual in that scene. Heh. Reminds me of the story about BEN-HUR, where Stephen Boyd was supposedly told _listen, you two were lovers when you were younger, because that sort of stuff happened in ancient times, right? So play this scene like you’d be willing to revive things, but he’s just not that into you._ The gag, of course, is why Charlton Heston is so convincing as a man who pretty much wants to act like that never happened: because _he_ supposedly got told _uh, yeah, so, you two used to be good friends._ ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/89 "2016-06-25T12:31:53Z")
I’m 64, and I didn’t assume that the character was trying to act as if he was gay when I saw _The Big Sleep_ thirty or forty years ago. I saw him as trying to act like he was a pretentious, picky intellectual. Again, I’m objecting to your statement that “It was understood by people back then . . .” That makes it sound like most people back then understood it the way you’re claiming they did. There may have been a subset of people who understood it that way, and that subset may include the director, but I don’t think that it included most people who saw the film when it came out. Do you have a citation showing that Howard Hawks (the director) told Bogart to make it sound like the character was trying to sound gay? There’s a claim in the Trivia section of the IMDb for _The Big Sleep_ that both Hawks and Bogart later claimed to have made the character sound the way he did (no, that isn’t a reliable source): > **[The Big Sleep (1946) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038355/trivia?ref_=tt_trv_trv)** > > The Big Sleep (1946) Trivia on IMDb: Cameos, Mistakes, Spoilers and more... I just looked up the passage in the novel that corresponds to this scene. It has the character think to himself, “I put my voice high and let a bird twitter in it.” That’s the only thing it says. That’s not very explicit. Interestingly, there was an explicit homosexual relationship in the novel _The Big Sleep_ that was cut out from the movie: > **[The Big Sleep (1946 film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Sleep_(1946_film))** > > The Big Sleep is a 1946 American film noir directed by Howard Hawks, the first film version of the 1939 novel of the same name by Raymond Chandler. The film stars Humphrey Bogart as private detective Philip Marlowe and Lauren Bacall as Vivian Rutledge in a story about the "process of a criminal investigation, not its results". William Faulkner, Leigh Brackett and Jules Furthman co-wrote the screenplay. > Initially produced in late 1944, the film's release was delayed by over a year due to the stud... > **[The Big Sleep](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Sleep)** > > The Big Sleep (1939) is a hardboiled crime novel by American-British writer Raymond Chandler, the first to feature the detective Philip Marlowe. It has been adapted for film twice, in 1946 and again in 1978. The story is set in Los Angeles. > The story is noted for its complexity, with characters double-crossing one another and secrets being exposed throughout the narrative. The title is a euphemism for death; the final pages of the book refer to a rumination about "sleeping the big sleep". > In... ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/90 "2016-06-25T13:14:28Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > Not sure how old you are, but different times, different cultural references back then than now. The director did say he told Bogart to act like he was a homosexual in that scene. > > This was an era when there was a category of comedians called “Nance” (for “Nancy”) comedians, who were considered funny because they acted like they were gay, or “sissies.” It was understood by people back then, even if not all of them were exactly clear who homosexuals were or what they did, exactly. (There were a lot more innocent people. back then.) Kind of related, their used to be a sideshow/freak show act where a person was half/half meaning half woman, half man. What would happen is a man would do things for say his man side than his woman side like shaving and wearing makeup vs beard, working out to build muscle tone but only on one side. Plus they could switch voices. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/91 "2016-06-25T23:49:06Z")
John Lithgow played a sympathetic transsexual (Roberta Muldoon) in the “The World According to Garp”. 1982 I used to see this movie all the time on TV. I don’t think I have seen a listing for it in 20 years or more. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/92 "2016-06-26T01:58:40Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > I’m 64, and I didn’t assume that the character was trying to act as if he was gay when I saw _The Big Sleep_ thirty or forty years ago. I saw him as trying to act like he was a pretentious, picky intellectual. Again, I’m objecting to your statement that “It was understood by people back then . . .” That makes it sound like most people back then understood it the way you’re claiming they did. There may have been a subset of people who understood it that way, and that subset may include the director, but I don’t think that it included most people who saw the film when it came out. Do you have a citation showing that Howard Hawks (the director) told Bogart to make it sound like the character was trying to sound gay? There’s a claim in the Trivia section of the IMDb for _The Big Sleep_ that both Hawks and Bogart later claimed to have made the character sound the way he did (no, that isn’t a reliable source): > > [The Big Sleep (1946) - Trivia - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038355/trivia?ref_=tt_trv_trv) > > I just looked up the passage in the novel that corresponds to this scene. It has the character think to himself, “I put my voice high and let a bird twitter in it.” That’s the only thing it says. That’s not very explicit. I think the truth is somewhere in between. He was being stereotypically effeminate, which could either mean he was (supposed to be) gay-ish or that he was (supposed to be) a fussy intellectual (\*a la \*Clifton Webb perhaps). The main point of him doing it was just to throw them off, in the shop, of the idea that he might be a private dick. And, lest anyone in the audience have any doubts whatever about Bogart or Marlowe, he immediately goes across the street and makes time with the pretty girl in that bookshop. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/93 "2016-06-26T02:01:21Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > I’m 64, and I didn’t assume that the character was trying to act as if he was gay when I saw _The Big Sleep_ thirty or forty years ago Too young by half! > [@](#): > > I saw him as trying to act like he was a pretentious, picky intellectual. Again, I’m objecting to your statement that “It was understood by people back then . . .” That makes it sound like most people back then understood it the way you’re claiming they did. There may have been a subset of people who understood it that way, and that subset may include the director, but I don’t think that it included most people who saw the film when it came out. Part of the fun of fooling censors back then was putting in stuff that some, but not all people would understand. > [@](#): > > Do you have a citation showing that Howard Hawks (the director) told Bogart to make it sound like the character was trying to sound gay? : The quote from Hawks came from the monograph on his career that the Museum of Modern Art did, > [@](#): > > I just looked up the passage in the novel that corresponds to this scene. It has the character think to himself, “I put my voice high and let a bird twitter in it.” That’s the only thing it says. That’s not very explicit. > > Interestingly, there was an explicit homosexual relationship in the novel _The Big Sleep_ that was cut out from the movie: > > [The Big Sleep (1946 film) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Sleep_(1946_film)) > > [The Big Sleep - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Sleep) There were a lot of references to gays, lesbians, and transvestites in the noir detective fiction of the era, not only Hammett and Chandler but lesser-known writers in the _Black Mask_ era. They were around then, and lots of references were made to them - as someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, Hammett (who had worked as a Pinkerton agent and actually had some street-level life experience before he began to write) referred to a character as a “gunsel” (essentially, a catamite or a prison punk). Other writers who didn’t have Hammett’s life experiences thought the term sounded cool but thought it meant the same thing as a “gunman” or a cheap hood and used it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/94 "2016-06-26T02:02:23Z")
In Diamonds Are Forever, the assassins Wint & Kidd are definitely gay. And I suspect they have occasional threesomes with Blofeld. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/95 "2016-06-26T02:11:44Z")
Edward Everett Horton made a career of being possibly gay, despitel being obviously gay. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/96 "2016-06-26T07:59:30Z")
Malthus: > [@](#): > > There are two possible answers to that. > > (1) The exact relationship between David and Jonathan was what we consider “gay” today, but did not transgress the Biblical prohibition - which, if I recall correctly, was against men lying with men as if they were women. David and Jonathan could easily have expressed what we would consider homosexual love, without breaching that very specific prohibition (and yes, I know Orthodox Jews interpret it broadly to prohibit any sort of homosexuality, but that may not have been the interpretation in David’s time). Or, of course, there’s the much less convoluted answer that their relationship was an emotional one with no sexual/erotic element to it at all. > [@](#): > > (2) The statement in 1 Kings 15:5 can’t possibly be true, as David did tons of other things that are without a doubt prohibited by the Torah. I don’t want to get off-topic, I’ll just answer that there’s more to most of these stories than a superficial reading of the text reveals, including the Shimi matter that you raise as an example. Bottom line is that the notion that David and Jonathan had any sort of sexual/erotic relationship is purely a matter of modern gay-rights political activism. The story of David and Jonathan is portrayed as a positive relationship by a culture that has never viewed sexuality between two men as a positive thing. If David and Jonathan can be seen as nothing more than characters in the Scriptural story (since we have no outside evidence of their existence, much less the details of their lives), it’s obvious that they’re not meant to be homosexual ones. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/97 "2016-06-26T10:49:51Z")
> [@installLSC](#): > > –This show has got to be one of the earliest portrayals of a LGBT character in mainstream media. Nope, only in US media, which was, and in many ways still is, behind the rest of the world in this regard. The British sitcom “[Steptoe & Son](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L2RROwD7uk)”, from which “Sanford and Son” was stolen, featured an openly gay character living with his partner, that was about 1970. The characters weren’t presented as objectionable in any way, it was Albert and, especially, Harold’s discomfort around them that made the laughs. By 1973 the Australian prime time soap “Number 96” had a gay couple as part of the regular cast, with no particular commentary. They were just another couple, who happened to be gay. The character Lukewarm on the English sitcom “Porridge” was treated the same way: just another inmate who happened to be gay. The running joke was that the other inmates wondered what their partners were up to outside, and Lukewarm’s boyfriend was neurotic about what he was up to inside, even though Lukewarm was completely faithful. there were several other gay character in the series. As far as transvestites, “The Auntie Jack Show” was a showcase for an openly transvestite character in 1972… _and it was originally touted as a children’s show_. If you want examples of LGBT characters of the type you describe: obviously “queer” but without it being openly stated, then you need to go back to at least the 1950s for non-US television. There were clearly gay characters on “Hancocks Half Hour” or the “Carry On …” movies in the '50s. > [@](#): > > –Obviously, the characterization in this episode is not complimentary to transgendered people. What were the first positive or at least not negative portrayals of LGBT people do you remember? Although I only “remember” them from re-runs, “Porridge” and “Number 96” stick out because they simply portray the gay characters as uncontroversial, assimilated people in a normal society, not remarkably better or worse than anyone else in the milieu. This is a feat that US television rarely manages even today. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/98 "2016-06-26T15:12:18Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Nope, only in US media, which was, and in many ways still is, behind the rest of the world in this regard. > > If you want examples of LGBT characters of the type you describe: obviously “queer” but without it being openly stated, then you need to go back to at least the 1950s for non-US television. There were clearly gay characters on “Hancocks Half Hour” or the “Carry On …” movies in the '50s. I did a little digging around and “Journey to the Unknown” was one of those ‘made in the UK for a transatlantic audience shows’ that were so common in the 60s, which would help explain its more free treatment of the character. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/99 "2016-06-26T17:38:55Z")
Blake writes: \> Nope, only in US media, which was, and in many ways still is, behind the rest of \> the world in this regard. I occasionally see claims like this. Please note that the only references other than to American media in this thread are to British and Australian media. “The rest of the world” is a great exaggeration. In fact, the attitudes toward homosexuality and the laws regarding it have been changing surprisingly fast in a large part of the world. It’s been slower in the U.S. than in some countries but faster than in other countries. To be more exact, it’s been changing faster in Western Europe and perhaps Oceania. It’s been changing slower in Latin America and Eastern Europe. It’s been changing much slower in Africa and Asia and the Middle East (in so far as it’s changed at all). Here’s one example of the timeline of changing attitudes: > **[Same-sex union legislation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_union_legislation#Constitutional_efforts_to_prohibit_same-sex_unions)** > > Same-sex marriage is legal in the following countries: Andorra, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico, the Netherlands,\[nb 1\] New Zealand,\[nb 2\] Norway, Portugal, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, the United Kingdom,\[nb 3\] the United States,\[nb 4\] and Uruguay. > Same-sex marriage is recognized, but not performed, in Israel. Furthermo... ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771/100 "2016-06-26T22:30:52Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Blake writes: > > \> Nope, only in US media, which was, and in many ways still is, behind the rest of > \> the world in this regard. > > I occasionally see claims like this. Please note that the only references other than to American media in this thread are to British and Australian media. “The rest of the world” is a great exaggeration. In fact, the attitudes toward homosexuality and the laws regarding it have been changing surprisingly fast in a large part of the world. It’s been slower in the U.S. than in some countries but faster than in other countries. To be more exact, it’s been changing faster in Western Europe and perhaps Oceania. It’s been changing slower in Latin America and Eastern Europe. It’s been changing much slower in Africa and Asia and the Middle East (in so far as it’s changed at all). Here’s one example of the timeline of changing attitudes: > > [Same-sex union legislation - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_union_legislation#Constitutional_efforts_to_prohibit_same-sex_unions) Yeah, for all the U.S. bashing, it’s a little broad to say that Soviet or Chinese or Saudi television had more sensitive portrayals of gays than the U.S. did, and that it was “only the U.S. media” that was behind the rest of the world (unless you are parochial enough to define “the world” as the U.S. and Great Britain). That’s kind of nonsensical. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-mainstream-media-portrayals-of-lgbt-characters/757771.md?page=6)