# Early post WWII aircraft = GORGEOUS!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [April 7, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166 "2003-04-07T21:22:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2003, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/81 "2003-04-09T17:38:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by bernse \*
> The Blackbird flew nowhere near Mach 5 or 6. It is generally accepted it topped out at low 3s.
Well, **bernse** , old legends die hard. In correspondence with Steve Levin (the editor of the XB-70 website) he said the SR-71 was flown by Daryl Greenameier briefly at Mach 3.6 (a bit more than the “low 3s”) but had to back off due to “heating issues.” Evidently Mach 3.2 was the highest _sustainable_ cruising speed.
I’ll have to concede that those heating issues are probably structurally related as opposed to control surface issues. Steve recently had lunch with Joe Ventolo, author of a recent book on the Blackbird and in trading “odd stories” about the SR-71, the heat / boundary envelope tale did not arise. I’ve asked him to inquire when he has the chance, just for grins.
As to the 75% of thrust due to suction, he replied, “The suction is a pretty common effect for afterburning turbojets.”
I’ll take that as confirmation of my own posting to that end. Thanks for inspiring my inquiry into all of this. It’s always nice to have the facts in order.
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### Author:  [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/82 "2003-04-09T17:44:20Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by ChalkPit \*
> \*\*Talking of flying boats, the Germans did some lovely ones. The Dornier Do24’s were extremely graceful.
>
> Yes, I certainly second the Vulcan too… \*\*
Yes, I agree, I have a photo in front of me of one (but no scanner). The Germans also had some mid wing four engine sea planes (as opposed to flying boats) that they launched from large catapult ships. When I find the names and a link, I’ll post it.
Funny thing, though… I find the Vulcan somewhat lacking. Oh well, to each his own.
I’ve noticed that the Germans seemed to stay away from tricycle gear, even the early Me 262s were tail draggers.
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### Author:  [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2003, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/83 "2003-04-09T17:53:38Z")
Of course, **Bernse’s** pics of the Do335 shoot my German taildragger theories all to heck.
🙂
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### Author:  [@ChalkPit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChalkPit)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2003, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/84 "2003-04-09T19:39:07Z")
I think the thing about the Vulcan , is that you have to see it doing a display, which is of course impossible now.
I have never been in such awe at an airshow as when I saw the Vulcan put through its paces.
Truly astonishing.
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### Author:  [@ChalkPit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChalkPit)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/85 "2003-04-09T19:45:23Z")
> [@](#):
>
> The Germans also had some mid wing four engine sea planes (as opposed to flying boats) that they launched from large catapult ships
You mean the Do26 ? But that is a flying boat, so maybe not - 4 engined and cat launched though.
[http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW/Do26-2s.jpg](http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW/Do26-2s.jpg)
The Germans use trike gears quite a bit. Ar234, Ta154, He219 to name but 3.
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### Author:  [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/86 "2003-04-09T21:33:22Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by bernse \*
> \*\*Actually, the Do335 Arrow was an amazing late warbird as well. [http://www.luftwaffepics.com/ldo3351.htm](http://www.luftwaffepics.com/ldo3351.htm) \*\*
Brilliant piece of thinking outside the box. “How do we give this bird the power of a twin but the roll rate of a single? Put both engines on the centre-line!”. 🆒
Bet it was a bitch to bale out of, though :eek:
Flying boats: Blohm und Voss did a couple of these, too. The Bv138 triple-engined “Flying Shoe” and the Bv222 six-engined monster. 🆒🆒
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### Author:  [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/87 "2003-04-09T22:04:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Bet it was a bitch to bale out of, though
Actually, IIRC it was one of (if not **the** ) first aircraft equiped with an ejection seat. I also think the rear prop was explosively seperated from the aircraft.
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/88 "2003-04-09T22:25:19Z")
I’ve seen a Dornier 335, and I’m pretty sure it’s the only one left. The Smithsonian Air and Space museum has it at their storage facility in the suburbs of D.C. (Silver Hill, Maryland, to be specific) I took a tour there a couple of years ago and it was amazing, and we were a small group so we got to go into a couple extra, out-of-the-way buildings. Most of the planes are in pieces to take up less space; you’ll see the fuselage parked on the floor and the guide points out the wings in a rack against the wall. But there’s just nothing like stepping into a dark warehouse, and as your eyes adjust to the light you’re three feet away from the _Winnie Mae_. (A Lockheed Vega, speaking of gorgeous airplanes.) And even when you’re standing right in front of them, you just don’t touch the original tires from _The Spirit of st. Louis_.
If I remember correctly, the Do-335 had an explosive charge on the drive shaft for the rear propellor. (And possibly one of the rear fins as well.) If you had to bail out, just trigger that charge, it cut the drive shaft and the prop was gone.
No problem, except that the plane was parked outside for quite a few years, no one knew knew about the explosives, and those things tend to get kinda unstable as the age. Eventually Dornier made a proposal to the Smithsonian that they’d restore the plane at their factory if they could display it there for a little while. Nobody noticed the unstable explosives until after they’d shipped the thing across the Atlantic in a Lufthansa cargo 747.
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### Author:  [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/89 "2003-04-09T22:25:46Z")
[Blohm und Voss Ha 139](http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/ha139.html)
[Blohm und Voss Bv 142](http://avia.russian.ee/air/germany/blohm_bv-142.html)
Low wing, not mid wing seaplanes. Faulty memory, I’m sure…
I guess my impression of Germans not liking trike gear was that early early Me 262. The plane taxied around the runway very fast, but never took off. The test pilot breifly applied brakes, bringing the tail up, and then the jet flew. It was remade as a trike. No cite for that other than a _Wings of the Luftwaffe_ show in my fuzzy memory.
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### Author:  [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/90 "2003-04-10T00:30:33Z")
**NoClueBoy** , go here instead, and go down to “raiden.jpg”
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### Author:  [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/91 "2003-04-10T01:04:47Z")
Another beauty from the '50s, the first piloted aircraft to achieve Mach 2.0, a [D-558-2 Skyrocket](http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/gallery/photo/D-558-2/Small/E-3996.jpg) in flight with an F-86 chase plane, and [launching](http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/gallery/photo/D-558-2/Small/E-2478.jpg) (in the company of an equally rare bird, a U.S. _Navy_ B-29).
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### Author:  [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2003, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/92 "2003-04-10T01:17:36Z")
**Speaker** , that worked fine. Interesting pic.
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### Author:  [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/93 "2003-04-10T01:53:40Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Speaker for the Dead \*
> \*\ ***NoClueBoy** , go here instead, and go down to “raiden.jpg” \*\*
Actually, I liked your “ugly” pic.
😉
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### Author:  [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/94 "2003-04-10T02:37:20Z")
Ah, for the record, I most look like the “untitled” pic, or the christmas ones.
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### Author:  [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2003, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/95 "2003-04-10T03:11:04Z")
How about the [Grumman Goose?](http://www.catalinagoose.homestead.com/files/N22932a_WEB.jpg)
Or if want something a little faster how about a [B-1B?](http://www.flygplan.info/images/Boeing%20B-1B%20Lancer.jpg) I saw one of these at an air show at
Edwards AFTB. Parked it looked like it was going 500MPH. Just flat sexy.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Mook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Mook)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/96 "2003-04-10T03:52:22Z")
Another vote here for the P-38 lightning.
As a kid, I loved the P-47 Thunderbolt. It was called the “Jug” but it could take a beating and was powerful as hell:
[http://www.photohome.com/photos/aircraft-pictures/fighters/p-47-thunderbolt-2.html](http://www.photohome.com/photos/aircraft-pictures/fighters/p-47-thunderbolt-2.html)
The F-106 Delta Dart was a sweet looking delta wing aircraft.
[http://www.aircraftplanesandjets.com/fighters/delta\_dart.htm](http://www.aircraftplanesandjets.com/fighters/delta_dart.htm)
But my all-time favorite remains the F-4 Phantom II, particualrly in the “E” and “G” (Wild Weasel) configurations:
[http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-4.htm](http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-4.htm)
The upturned wingtips and the downturned tail fins just look so damn cool!
🆒
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### Author:  [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2003, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/97 "2003-04-10T07:18:27Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by ChalkPit \*
> \*\*I think the thing about the Vulcan , is that you have to see it doing a display, which is of course impossible now.
>
> I have never been in such awe at an airshow as when I saw the Vulcan put through its paces.
>
> Truly astonishing. \*\*
A cherished childhood memory is that of seeing 3 Vulcans flying low over my parents’ house during a NATO exercise. Whoah! - these birds take up a _lot_ of sky.
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### Author:  [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2003, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/98 "2003-04-10T08:00:15Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by bernse \*
> \*\*Actually, IIRC {the Do-335} was one of (if not _the_) first aircraft equiped with an ejection seat. I also think the rear prop was explosively seperated from the aircraft. \*\*
Saab came up with a twin-boom pusher round about the same time that took a similar approach, for much the same reason. I can’t remember any more details, as this was in a borrowed book I read maybe nine or ten years ago and have long since given back.
Talking of “taking up a lot of sky”, how about the Messerchmitt Me323 _Gigant_? An ugly brute, but an impressive one.
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### Author:  [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2003, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/99 "2003-04-10T12:36:42Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Robot Arm \*
> **They had one cowling off and you could practically see Frank Whittle’s fingerprints on the engine. And I wear my F-27 tie pin all the time.**
Hey, cool! 🙂
The one bit of trivia that I remember about the Fokker F27 is that the wings were mounted on the fuselage using only four bolts per wing. I don’t know if it’s true or not, it was related to me by a just-landed paratrooper when I was watching the Friendships drop parachutists over the moors near my parents’ house, when I was a young lad of 10 years old. Sadly, they no longer do droppings anymore. I also vividly remember the sonic booms of the NF5’s and, later, the F16’s as they came blasting over (there was an air force base 15 kilometers away), back in the day when jet fighters were still allowed to go supersonic over the Netherlands. Late 70’s, early 80’s.
I also remember seeing an entire squadrom of Stealth Bombers land at that same air force base in the early 90’s. Too cool!
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/early-post-wwii-aircraft-gorgeous/167166/100 "2003-04-10T14:55:08Z")
The Smithsonian will put the Do-335 on display at the [new branch museum at Dulles Airport](http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/ext/), which opens this December (the 100th anniversary of the Wrights’ first successful powered flight). Most of the aircraft that have been in storage at the Garber facility will go there, including the fully-reassembled Enola Gay.
Yes, I’ll be there.
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