I heartily agree.
I have given my friends crap for not voting. I think it is a responsibility and not just a right. We must vote because we believe in democracy and what our country stands for and should stand for.
I do also believe in what some people say, which is:
If you don’t vote, you have no right to complain about who gets into office.
YMMV.
Euty, all you guys, if you were here I’d haveta give you all a bigass bear hug.
I don’t think you could be more right; the patriotisim that is the warp and weft of the fabric of America doesn’t consist of heroic acts of epic proportions, but minuscule acts of daily respect for the flag and all it represents.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, those heroic acts are damed important, but the people who vote, the people who volunteer for community events, the people who become involved in their communities and how they are governed, are the heroes to me.
If there is a single defining behavior of true Americans, it is that they are involved. Most find that the involvement takes little time but the rewards in personal satisfaction and the feeling of being involved in your own destiny make it all worthwhile. Few, if any, will ever have an opportunity to participate in heroic behavior, but you can damned sure go to your town council meetings, your school board meetings, and participate.
By the way, I enjoy Christmas and Easter masses a great deal- I have a good time imagining how uncomfortable the person must be in the seat that I usually occupy, as by now it’s probably formed itself to the shape of my buttocks.
b.
I had to quote this part because I just wnat to make sure I’m not misunderstood. The rescue workers and the people motivating them on with chants of USA! USA are really the true heroes here and I have the utmost respect for their efforts. And the feeling of patriotism I think we all feel right now is tremendous. I’m just hoping that it all lasts beyond the emotion of the moment.
It still won’t matter. When all is said and done, most will go back to their self-absorbed lives until the next crisis. That, too is the American Way. When we need them, they are there, and when we don’t, they go away. It’s actually rather useful. The sudden rush to the Flag reminds me that there is one great characteristic of the American people: When we’re really threatened, everyone stands up to be counted. In between threats we’re agumentative, divisive, shallow and selfish, but cut us deeply, and we all bleed together.
I respectfully disagree as someone who has never voted.
I disagree with many American practices and choose not to vote because of this; I do love my country. Not voting is political.
This, however, is a real tragedy. I always have, and continue to, love my country. I choose not to vote: now I should be expected to vote for my right to not vote?
I respectfully disagree.
I have served in the military. I love my country, but don’t tell me what patriotic is. Let me respectfully disagree.
Cite please? I can’t find a source that shows a voter turnout of greater that 60.7% for any Soviet election, including after 1988. Before 1988, ballots had a single candidates name printed on them, to vote for the candidate, you dropped the ballot in a box, to vote against the candidate you had to cross the room and strike out the candidate’s name. I bet voter participation was HUGE!
Anyway, I read the OP as saying that this is a good time to reflect on democracy, and what it takes to make democracy successful, which is participation of it’s citizens. I did not read the OP as saying “I was patriotic first, so nanny nanny boo boo.”
I’m just curious to know how you feel about the people around the rest of the world who are now flying U.S. flags (at half staff, no less); who are lining up outside U.S. Embassies to lay flowers, light candles and sign condolence books; who are donating blood to their local Red Cross; who are singing our National Anthem, etc. Are these people “Johnny come latelys” who haven’t earned the right to express their condolences and support because they’ve never taken an interest in the U.S. before?
LifeOnWry wants to know, “And when did you last give blood, donate to the Red Cross, volunteer, etc. BEFORE this happened? If the answer is ‘Right after Columbine, Oklahoma City, etc.’ I will be wanting a word with you, too.”
And I’d like to know what’s so wrong with it if that is the case? I don’t volunteer every week in soup kitchens, but on Thanksgiving I do go to a mission and help feed the homeless who have little to give thanks for. Does that somehow cheapen what I am able/willing/have time to do because I only do it once a year? I don’t go to synagogue every Saturday, but does that make me any less a Jew in my heart if I live my life by the tenets of my faith as much as I can on a daily basis?
To all those in this thread who seem angry, upset or disappointed that it took a tragedy of this magnitude to rally people who probably do care very much every single day of their lives, to finally pick up their flag and wave it: I beg you to stop being so judgemental of those who do what they can, just because it isn’t enough for you.
This isn’t a competition. No one gets to proclaim themselves more patriotic than their neighbors just because they express their patriotism more vocally or more frequently. And no one should have to earn the right to express their love for this country, even if they only do so once a year - be it Memorial Day, Flag Day, Independence Day, or, periodically, when a national crisis calls for it.
Peace to all.
Fair enough. Since an extensive web search has failed to uncover a relevant cite, I withdraw the assertion.
However, I maintain my position that voting is a right, and not a requirement of American citizenship. The Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance (IDEA) has a good page on the pitfalls of compulsory voting.
On preview I see that Shayna has put the case far more eloquently than I have. I still find the idea that Americans have to “earn” the right to be proud of their country, to fly their flag, or to mourn their dead to be insulting and offensive.
Thomas Paine said, “The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.” It is precisely in times of crisis that patriotism matters most.
I just think it’s great that we live in a country where we can take these things for granted in the first place.
There are millions of Americans who do what needs to be done. They vote, salute the flag, donate blood, work and pay taxes, you name it. And even though I am sad that it’s taken a crisis of this magnitude to bring out the patriot in a lot of us, I take comfort in the millions who are and have been all along.
Robin
Always nice to know where one stands with ones fellow Dopers. According to this, I’m a real speck of shit in LifeonWry’s eyes because I- A) Don’t walk around NYC offering medical care 24/7/360, AND, B) left after the first two days.
Boy, I do suck, don’t I LifeonWry??? AND, all the OTHER THOUSANDS of volunteers who went, and are still going in to help? They must suck too !! Hey man, thank you for setting us all straight as to who is a human being, and who is just a hanger-on in the great carnival that is your universe.
You want a word with ME??? I am all ears.
Excuse me while I puke. :mad: :mad: :mad:
Cartooniverse
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by LifeOnWry *
I THINK what’s being said here is that it is a pity that we NEED a crisis of this magnitude to wake the patriot that may indeed be living at all times inside us. I don’t begrudge anyone their feelings, but I would like to live in a world where this kind of tragedy isn’t the mobilizing factor.
How easily do you want us to mobilize and for what sort of reason? According to your theory we should be mounting a crusade on a regular basis. After Pearl Harbor most of the American people had to change their stand on getting involved in the war. What would be your opinion of someone that had written an article called “Monday Morning Hypocrites”, after Pearl Harbor?
What you should be doing is welcoming them, standing behind them as they get used to participating. Bashing them for finally showing up to vote, donate, or help is counterproductive. If you keep that attitude, they’ll more than likely go back to old habits, and next time not bother to help anyone.
I’m impressed this week. I’m happy we can all dump our labels like conservate, liberal, southerner, yankee, religious or not-religious, and remember that we are all Americans, underneath. Maybe we can encourage the nation to change it’s behavior, at least I’ll do my small part.
I am going to try to say this reasonably and make myself clear, and I am going to ignore the personal slights at me, because I can clearly see where it appears that I have done the same.
I am (very informally) researching the phenomenon of people who activate in a time of crisis who do not activate in times of non-crisis. I am curious about the definition of “crisis” – is crisis defined in terms of scale? Are we reacting to some sort of group mentality-bandwagon, or is a crisis something we truly need as a species to activate a kind of tribal community? What role does our status play in the way we react (by “status” I mean our perception of ourselves as victims, heroes, community, short-skirt-wearers who do get raped)? What roles do personal politics and/or religion have in those decisions?
I certainly don’t think you suck. And I CAN see where my posts seem critical and self-righteous – I apologize for that. It really is informal research, but I am not a reporter, I am an editorialist, and as such my own opinions are sort of by definition included in what I write. Said opinions sometimes do take the form of criticism, and I am aware of that. Thus, research to ensure that I am getting more than just my side of the story, so that when I DO write this, I am not making a complete ass of myself.
PS: Additionally, I should also apologize for snitching the thread out from under Eutychus. I very much jumped on the bandwagon behind him (her?) there. Opportunistic of me.
Sorry.
I heartily agree with what b]Shayna** has posted. Any service volunteered benefits the community/country/world we live in. Whether it’s a first time in your life event, once a year occurence, or a routine part of your life. I volunteer regularly and often but frankly until this week it NEVER occured to me that it had anything to do with patriotism. For me it’s about compassion and gratitude for the advantages and blessings in my life. I vote, somtimes. I serve jury duty, sometimes. I also break speed limit laws, sometimes. Sometimes, I get goose bumps when I hear the national athem or read the words. This week I’ve had that goosebumpy “patriotic feeling” alot more than any other time in my life since the Gulf War. My sincerest apologies to those of you who find it offensive.
I think THIS is exactly what the terrorists were trying to accomplish, tear us apart, get us to disagree and disparage each others reactions and responses to the attacks, to “divide and conquer” so to speak. It’s working to, just on this board people are angry with others for new found patriotism, for letting the youth play football instead of sitting glued to the television, for wanting to increase security on airplanes and not increasing it sooner. Posters are angry with the media for being too smarmy and for being insensitive, at the volunteers for chanting U.S.A., the list goes on and on.
I think it’s exactly what the terrorists want to happen and it saddens me greatly.
Sometimes it takes a good hard slap for someone to realize what they have been taking for granted. I think the last thing we need at a time like this is a pissing contest between those who have always been patriotic and those who were slow waking up.
Can’t we just leave this type of pettiness behind and worry about the things that really matter right now?
And sometimes decent people don’t realize that they might be needed until something happens that makes them realize. Sometimes people who do love the things America stands for become disillusioned with what they see as others perverting those things, and don’t see all they have in common until a crisis occcurs. Sometimes people are complacent with the world around them at other times, but are not now. Sometimes people simply take freedom for granted.
I have no intention of condemning those who are pure of heart, even if they haven’t bothered to show it. I have no intention of pronouncing judgement on those who have been distracted by the mundane concerns of their everyday lives from being the paragons of virtue they’d like to be. A wise teacher once said “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” I choose to abide that counsel, and if I approach, it is not with stone in hand, but with my hand extended in greeting.
“Welcome aboard, I seem to have just gotten here myself.”