# Earth orbit off 1mm-earth toast link **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 7, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239 "2012-11-07T16:41:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/21 "2012-11-08T00:39:00Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > The claim is nonsense. The Earth’s orbit is slightly eccentric, which means the distance to the Sun varies by about 5 million kilometres. Over hundreds of thousands of years, the eccentricity can vary considerably due to the tug of the other planets. > > This wiki article on [Milankovitch Cycles](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles) details the ways in which the Earth’s orbit changes, and the effect it has on climate. WRONGO. Completely wasted argument. The millimeterites are not going to accept an age of the earth very much over 7,000 years. In fact, it may have been created as lately as this past Tuesday, when the antichrist was re-elected. ---
**Author:** ![virtually\_yours](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a587f6/32.png) [@virtually\_yours](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/virtually_yours)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/22 "2012-11-08T01:41:45Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Tell us something more about the “documentary.” What was the subject? What channel? > > I must assume it was some sort of religious program because the claim has no scientific basis whatsoever. Or else you misunderstood what the claim was. not religious… discovery/nat geo/tlc .. one of those . it was a woman.. she may have had an accent.. I’m sure it will come around again virtually yours ---
**Author:** ![virtually\_yours](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a587f6/32.png) [@virtually\_yours](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/virtually_yours)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/23 "2012-11-08T01:44:52Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > “Golden Rectangles,” yes. “Perfect rectangles,” no. What would you use for the definition of the term? > > In engineering terms, you might speak of a “precise rectangle,” one where the corners are 90 degrees, plus or minus 20 seconds of angular error. That’s probably better than any of us could draw on a piece of paper with ruler and pencil. But in engineering terms, a “perfect rectangle” is unobtainable. what’s wrong with a _perfect rectangle_ it;s the shape I am talking about not the size. vy ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/24 "2012-11-08T02:09:18Z")
> [@virtually\_yours](#): > > what’s wrong with a _perfect rectangle_ it;s the shape I am talking about not the size. > vy My apologies; I thought you were talking about the proportions. i.e., a perfect square is obvious, and a Golden rectangle is well-defined, but I didn’t get what the proportions would be in a rectangle to make it perfect. (Two consecutive perfect numbers?) Anyway, my bad, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/25 "2012-11-08T02:50:31Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > My apologies; I thought you were talking about the proportions. i.e., a perfect square is obvious, and a Golden rectangle is well-defined, but I didn’t get what the proportions would be in a rectangle to make it perfect. (Two consecutive perfect numbers?) Anyway, my bad, sorry. I mean the shape. A parallelogram where all of the corners are just a little bit off 90 degrees could be called an “almost perfect rectangle” in the same way that an ellipse with semi-major axis only very slightly different length from its semi-minor axis is an “almost perfect circle”. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/26 "2012-11-08T04:42:12Z")
Besides the Earth’s eccentric orbit, it’s also moving away from the Sun at about 15 cm/year. So even if it were exactly the right distance (within 1 mm or even 1 inch) one year, it’d be wrong the next. ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/27 "2012-11-08T07:10:02Z")
If one millimeter made that much of a difference, then we wouldn’t be able to have any structures on the surface facing the Sun any taller than one millimeter without bursting into flame. Just throughout the course of a day, as the Earth rotates, your distance from the Sun changes by 12,000 kilometers (the diameter of Earth). A small fraction of the Earth-Sun distance, but much greater than a millimeter! ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/28 "2012-11-08T10:47:07Z")
> [@virtually\_yours](#): > > I think it was saying that if it’s orbit (elliptical notwithstanding) was to be off 1mm or so that things would be a lot different. I.e. it has a perfect elliptical orbit and if this was to go off by that tiny amount it would change everything.. maybe exponentially. > virtually yours Okay, I think this gives me an idea of the science that is being mangled here. Over very long periods of time, the solar system exhibits chaotic behaviour. It’s impossible to predict exactly where the Earth will be along it’s orbit in a hundred million years time. Moving a planet a few metres could have a large effect in a few million years. However, the planets have remained in a fairly stable configuration for about 4 billion years, and are expected to remain so until the Sun evolves into a red giant in another 5 billion or so. (Supercomputer simulations suggest there is about a 1% chance Mercury’s orbit will become unstable within the next billion years. This could lead to it being ejected from the solar system, or it could collide with Venus or Earth. This would be bad.) ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/29 "2012-11-08T13:12:34Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Besides the Earth’s eccentric orbit, it’s also moving away from the Sun at about 15 cm/year. So even if it were exactly the right distance (within 1 mm or even 1 inch) one year, it’d be wrong the next. But the Earth is warming up, so exactly the right distance will also be increasing. God is truly amazing! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/30 "2012-11-08T13:19:05Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > But it’s more than a millimeter. Now that’s just a little silly, Slim. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/31 "2012-11-08T14:08:26Z")
Question for the OP: Did this same “documentary” happen to also tout that bit (I forgot what the bit is supposed to be) “proving a missing day so the Bible must be true”? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/32 "2012-11-08T15:47:16Z")
This little (false) factoid has been around a long time. I heard it when I was in first or second grade, when my sister told the family that her teacher told her class this tidbit. I can’t remember if it was one inch, or one foot, but it was some implausibly small amount. This would be around 1966 or 1967, well before the introduction of millimeters to back-woods East Texas. Looking back, I can see the seeds of my skepticism even then. I remember thinking that it didn’t sound right, and filed it under “maybe” in my memory. I think that’s why I remember it. Another thing that I recall my sister saying, which I thought was complete bullshit, was that her teacher told them that if you look up in the night sky, that the stars are really far apart, and that the closest of the stars are still _thousands_ of miles apart. I thought this was BS because you can look at them and see that they’re not really very far apart - they’re just right there! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/33 "2012-11-08T15:52:51Z")
If I may hazard a guess: The OP might have seen a bit on one of the other Fine Tuning Problems, and misinterpreted it. For instance, if the gravitational constant were to increase just a bit, it would cause both the Sun to be hotter and the Earth’s orbit to be smaller, with the result being to scorch the planet beyond habitability. Of course, that one would only be a problem if it actually changed: If it were that little bit stronger all along, then there’d be some other planet which is somewhat further from a somewhat smaller star which could support life just fine. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/34 "2012-11-08T17:19:48Z")
> [@Yumblie](#): > > If one millimeter made that much of a difference, then we wouldn’t be able to have any structures on the surface facing the Sun any taller than one millimeter without bursting into flame. > > Just throughout the course of a day, as the Earth rotates, your distance from the Sun changes by 12,000 kilometers (the diameter of Earth). A small fraction of the Earth-Sun distance, but much greater than a millimeter! This was my first thought too. Imagine half of the earth stooping slightly and the other half on their tippytoes perpetually in fear of bursting in flame. DAYBREAK, YOU FOOLS! HUNCH! BUT DON’T HUNCH TOO MUCH FOR YOU SHALL FREEZE! AND HUNCH IN ACCORDANCE TO HEIGHT! ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/35 "2012-11-08T18:56:14Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Question for the OP: Did this same “documentary” happen to also tout that bit (I forgot what the bit is supposed to be) “proving a missing day so the Bible must be true”? I think you may be talking about the [Joshua missing day that NASA found notion.](http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2010/08/24/joshua-missing-day) Very popular back in the 80s, but now that Answers in Genesis is all scientific, even they debunk it. One wonders if believers persuaded by this sort of thing issue retractions on their belief upon subsequently learning the item was bogus… ---
**Author:** ![virtually\_yours](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a587f6/32.png) [@virtually\_yours](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/virtually_yours)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/36 "2012-11-09T02:46:24Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Question for the OP: Did this same “documentary” happen to also tout that bit (I forgot what the bit is supposed to be) “proving a missing day so the Bible must be true”? i don’t remember anything about the bible in the doc. maybe next time it comes up i will pay more attention vy ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/37 "2012-11-09T03:39:11Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > [lolwtfcomics.com](http://www.lolwtfcomics.com/upload/uploads/1316127939.jpg) That is brilliant. Thank you for sharing. How dare he post facts on her facebook?? ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/38 "2012-11-09T12:14:20Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > An infinite amount Well, actually no. Mass of the earth: 5.972 \* 10^24 kg Mass of the sun: 1.9891 \* 10^30 kg Radius of earth orbit: 149,600,000,000m So the gravitational force between the earth and the sun is approximately 3.54 \* 10^22 N The amount of energy to move the earth by 1mm away from the sun would be approximately 3.54 \* 10^22 N \* 0.001m = 3.54 \* 10^19 J According to [World energy supply and consumption - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption), the world consumed 474 exajoules (4.74 \* 10^20 J) in 2008. So the amount of energy to move the earth by 1mm is about 7.5% of global energy consumption in 2008. Not a very small amount. Now the amount of \*power \*that you’d need to move it instantaneously, of course, infinity. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/39 "2012-11-09T12:50:57Z")
> [@Dervorin](#): > > Well, actually no. You’re only calculating the energy of _slowly_ moving the Earth. You’re not including the kinetic energy of an Earth moving 1 mm in zero time (“instantaneously)”. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239/40 "2012-11-09T12:59:27Z")
Well I saw this documentary where a guy in a police box moved the Earth halfway across the universe and all it did was rattle the teacups a bit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-orbit-off-1mm-earth-toast-link/640239.md?page=3)