# Earth, Water, Air, Fire and Void (or not). **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 24, 2001, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-water-air-fire-and-void-or-not/69975 "2001-06-24T17:16:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sue\_Duhnym](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@Sue\_Duhnym](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sue_Duhnym)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-water-air-fire-and-void-or-not/69975/1 "2001-06-24T17:16:04Z")
Last night I was at my local hangout and a guy mentioned that there were four elements: Earth, Water, Air and Fire. I said I thought there were five, the fifth being Void. This started a debate that Void can’t really be called an element for the same reason black and white aren’t colors. I asked him to describe the color of my pants, then went into Cecil mode ( [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3\_344.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_344.html) ) as best as I could. Eventually the discussion petered out because we started doing shots but I confess that I didn’t really know what I was talking about. So is Void an element or just an absence of all the others, and what the heck it all this about anyway? Where does the periodic table come into all of this? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-water-air-fire-and-void-or-not/69975/2 "2001-06-24T17:35:28Z")
I’ve never heard of Void being a fifth element. I know of at least one culture (China at the time of Lao Tzu) that listed five elements (water, fire, wood, metal, and earth)[sup]1[/sup]. I think (but am not sure) that the Greeks of the same time period had a fifth element that was called something like “life”, or “motive force”. Void is usually used to refer to the absence of everything. A quick google search (earth air water fire void) turned up at least one page that list those as the five elements, but nothing of substance. As for the periodic table, I’m guessing that they chose to name the different types of atoms elements because the word was used to refer to the constituent parts of matter–only now, there were more than four or five. 1 _Hua Hu Ching_, Lao Tzu ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-water-air-fire-and-void-or-not/69975/3 "2001-06-24T17:49:42Z")
The fifth element in the Greek scheme of things was [ether](http://www.bartleby.com/61/73/E0227300.html), also known as the [quintessence](http://www.bartleby.com/61/68/Q0036800.html). This was the element (generally held to be luminous, I believe) which the stars and planets were composed of. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-water-air-fire-and-void-or-not/69975/4 "2001-06-24T17:51:01Z")
It’s Ether (Aether?), not Void. ---
**Author:** ![Homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-water-air-fire-and-void-or-not/69975/5 "2001-06-24T17:54:05Z")
I remember a Superman storyline about a mad chemist who created rings that personified the elements. Superman caught four of the badguys who stole and used the rings then Prof. Hamilton told him that some cultures respected a fifth element also, the void. Just about then the fifth badguy showed up with his void ring. YMMV –Tim ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-water-air-fire-and-void-or-not/69975/6 "2001-06-24T17:55:30Z")
The earth, water, air, and fire business comes from the ancient Greeks. It was their belief that these were the most basic forms of matter and all other matter is made up of them in various proportions. Each element had special properties that they imparted to whatever matter contained them. This was also tied into early medicine and the four bodily humours. I’ve never heard of void being an element. I’m not sure how you could use void as a component of matter. This, of course, isn’t how matter is constructed. Matter is made of atoms, and the most basic chemical elements are described by the periodic table. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-water-air-fire-and-void-or-not/69975/7 "2001-06-24T18:41:45Z")
In India the five element names in Sanskrit are: _tejas_ (fire), _vâyu_ (air), _apas_ (water), _p.rthivi_ (earth), and _âkâSa_ (ether or space). Because _âkâSa_ can be translated as either ether or space, that may have brought about the confusion with “void.” Actually, the Sanskrit name for void is a different word: _Sûnyatâ_, which means emptiness or nothingness. _âkâSa_ originally meant ‘a free and open space’ and can also be used to mean air, the sky, heavens, the cosmos. Not only that, _âkâSavâNî_ (voice of _âkâSa_) is the modern Sanskrit coinage for ‘radio’. The idea being that _âkâSa_ is the subtle and etheral fluid that fills and pervades the universe and is the vehicle for life and sound. The subtle matrix that provides the ground in which the other four elements exist. Because it’s subtle, people don’t perceive it, so they mistake it for nothingness or “Void”. But in Sanskrit _âkâSa_ and _Sûnyatâ_ are two distinct concepts. Empedocles added to the traditional four elements _two_ more: attraction and repulsion, or love and hate. ---
**Author:** ![Sue\_Duhnym](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@Sue\_Duhnym](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sue_Duhnym)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-water-air-fire-and-void-or-not/69975/8 "2001-06-24T19:45:21Z")
GAH! I hate being wrong. I wonder where I heard/read it. I’m not a Superman fan, so not there. FWIW, I had always thought of it not as the absence of everything, but more like the vacuum of space. As it so happens, vacuum is one definition of void, so I’m still wrong, dammit! Eh, learn something new every day. I DO dig that word, _quintessence_ though. Especially when you consider the etymology of it…fifth essence indeed. ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-water-air-fire-and-void-or-not/69975/9 "2001-06-24T19:56:58Z")
The reason you didn’t come up with the right answer is because you used the wrong search engine. I searched for “the fifth element” on [IMDB](http://www.imdb.com) and the plot summary clearly states that the fifth element is **love**. -fh ---
**Author:** ![Britt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Britt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Britt)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-water-air-fire-and-void-or-not/69975/10 "2001-06-24T20:17:34Z")
Well Buddhist philosophy seems to have incorporated via way of the Sanskrit miss-translation the concept of the void as a fifth element. [Here](http://www.friesian.com/elements.htm) is a good site with the various elemental philosophies. Britt ---
**Author:** ![Verrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/46a35a/32.png) [@Verrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Verrain)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2001, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earth-water-air-fire-and-void-or-not/69975/11 "2001-06-24T20:30:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sue Duhnym \* > \*\*GAH! I hate being wrong. > > I wonder where I heard/read it. I’m not a Superman fan, so not there. > \*\* Well when I read the topic title, I immediately thought of the Book of the Five Rings, by Miyamoto Mushashi. It is a book of philosophy and fighting technique and the chapters are titles Air, Earth, Fire, Water, and Void. Don’t recall if he meant them as the main elements of the world or how the translator may have played with things, but there ya go.