# "East Asian Civilization'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 7, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173 "2012-05-07T15:10:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/41 "2012-05-08T01:49:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t think the OP is going to come back. > > Ever. Agreed. If the OP had a clue he (she?) had a great source here to answer homework questions and probably learn something. A little effort at obscuring the homework question would have provided them a wealth of material for class. I would have killed to have the SDMB as a resource when I was in school. I have no doubt I could pose questions here when I was 16 or older to get the grown-ups talking and help write my paper for me. The ham handed approach the OP has taken to this and other threads makes me worry for our future. It would be simple to use the SDMB as a resource for getting answers to all this and more. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/42 "2012-05-08T02:39:10Z")
> [@Eastwest99](#): > > What is meant by “East Asian Civilization”? what are the traditional values, beliefs and practices of East Asia that placed China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam at a comparative geopolitical disadvantage during the 19th century? Be specific as to cultural differences among East Asian societies, as well as different outcomes. East Asian civilization is basically all the Chinese influenced countries in Asia (thus ruling out India and Indonesia). Their main handicap in falling behind the West were due to cultural reasons such as the lack of competition among the countries due to the domination of China in the region. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/43 "2012-05-08T02:55:09Z")
I might say that isolation, arrogance, corruption, and excessive cultural/governmental baggage put those civilizations, _especially_ China, at a disadvantage. Japan isn’t really behind, and neither is South Korea. Vietnam is practically China anyway, culturally and linguistically. Japan _was_ behind, but I’d say their lesser isolation and cultural baggage helped them catch up more quickly than China. China used to accomplish a lot, relatively speaking, but their government and culture became so structured, Byzantine, and unwieldy (I’d say through simple age and isolation) that they simply couldn’t change fast enough to complete. They’re catching up now, but it’s still very true than China and Japan can’t really innovate in any real way. South Korea doesn’t have this problem. I think this is partially due to its rejection of Chinese culture and influence, and also partially its embracing of Western attitudes and culture. However, I could be totally wrong about the _reasons_ for South Korea’s stunning track record re: innovations. The track record is there, either way. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/44 "2012-05-08T04:58:22Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > As far as I know – and mind you, I heard this from an ABD in East Asian (focusing on Sino-Tibetan) Linguistics – Korean and Japanese have surface similarities, but deep linguistic analysis reveals that they’re both linguistic isolates. Pretty much the only available historical explanation for the Yayoi is that they were horse-borne warriors who arrived in Japan from Korea, and ethnically they are the closest known relatives of modern-day Japanese, so there’s presumably _some_ relationship. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/45 "2012-05-08T05:10:53Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Pretty much the only available historical explanation for the Yayoi is that they were horse-borne warriors who arrived in Japan from Korea, and ethnically they are the closest known relatives of modern-day Japanese, so there’s presumably _some_ relationship. And presumably a strong-swimming breed of horses, too. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/46 "2012-05-08T05:32:00Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Easy! That was LaPlace when Napoleon asked him about God. I’m mighty disappointed in you people that not a single one of you asked who said “I have no need of that hypothesis.” (The answer, of course, is Galileo, when he recanted.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/47 "2012-05-08T06:26:40Z")
> [@Eastwest99](#): > > What is meant by “East Asian Civilization”? what are the traditional values, beliefs and practices of East Asia that placed China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam at a comparative geopolitical disadvantage during the 19th century? Be specific as to cultural differences among East Asian societies, as well as different outcomes. If I might get serious for a moment, it’s a real bad idea to ask for homework help on this board. Not just because it makes some people hostile, as you’ve seen. But also because we’re not in a position to help you with your classroom assignments. For example, you posted, _[“That which accounts for the unprecedented success of the Qing Dynasty also explains its demise.” Explain?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=650979)_ Now a few of us offered some ideas but they were just guesses. We weren’t there in your class (and maybe you weren’t there in your class either). We don’t know your instructor and what he or she had to say on this subject. Anything you get from us is probably going to be completely off topic and will just show your instructor you didn’t learn anything in class. My suggestion is that if you want to skate through your classes, you need to do a better job at it. Start borrowing notes from the other students rather than try to get help on a message board. Or maybe you could just go to class, pay attention, and take notes. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/48 "2012-05-08T15:27:50Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Pretty much the only available historical explanation for the Yayoi is that they were **horse-borne warriors** who arrived in Japan from Korea, and ethnically they are the closest known relatives of modern-day Japanese, so there’s presumably _some_ relationship. Aren’t those called Centaurs? Don’t confuse the lad! ---
**Author:** ![punch\_line\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e7dd6/32.png) [@punch\_line\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/punch_line_loser)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/49 "2012-05-10T19:04:21Z")
I’d really like to know the format that the answer to this question is supposed to be in. Also, if any professor seriously asks for a definition of “East Asian Culture,” then it probably means they’re a Eurocentric ignoramus. To be fair, the answer this asshole is probably looking for must be something like, “Confucian conservatism was holding them back until the fabulous white man made with the civilization!” Western exceptionalism for the win! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/50 "2012-05-10T20:41:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If I might get serious for a moment, it’s a real bad idea to ask for homework help on this board. Not just because it makes some people hostile, as you’ve seen. Especially toward the members who keep trying to give serious answers. 😉 Y’see, **Eastwest99** and any other students who might want help with homework, this board is made up of one half class clowns, one half smartest kids in the class, and one half dumb schlubs like you and me. The fractions don’t work because there’s an awful lot of people who were in both the first and second groups. ETA: Unless you were never taught fractions, in which case they add up just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/51 "2012-05-10T20:55:00Z")
You know, if the kid had bothered to work the questions into a conversation, or at the very least asked the questions in his own words we might have helped him out a bit. All the OP did, though, was copy the questions off the test verbatim without even a “Hi! My name is Eastwest 99!” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/52 "2012-05-10T21:39:48Z")
> [@punch\_line\_loser](#): > > To be fair, the answer this asshole is probably looking for must be something like, . . . I realize you were probably aiming at the instructor, but let’s avoid calling people “asshole” in Great Debates when there is any possibiltiy that the target might be misconstrued as a poster. [/ Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/53 "2012-05-10T22:00:37Z")
> [@Eastwest99](#): > > What is meant by “East Asian Civilization”? what are the traditional values, beliefs and practices of East Asia that placed China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam at a comparative geopolitical disadvantage during the 19th century? Be specific as to cultural differences among East Asian societies, as well as different outcomes. Well I think the cultures you mention were heavily influenced by Confucius and had imperial exams to select government officials, this base of Confucian values and emphasis on academics as a method of (limited) social mobility informs the cultural values of the cultures you mention. Theese factors are relatively minor in comparison to the fact that these are also the cultures that traditionally used chopsticks. This is the result of centuries of experience with preventing disease and this use of chopsticks was the main reason why East Asian cultures were able to avoid the plagues that wiped out so much of Europe during the middle ages. The European plagues selected against warm gregarious friendly people who would easily transmit diseases to each other so anti-social tendencies became a survival trait among Europeans. These anti-social survival traits were common among sociopaths and psychopaths so when they encountered Chinese fireworks used to make pretty lights in the sky, they naturally figured out how you could kill lots of people with the gunpowder. It was these sort of differences that largely explain the advantages that the western powers had over the East Asians. Many of the cultural differences between the four cultures are easiest to see in the differences in chopstick etiquette. For example, it is taboo to leave your chopsticks stuck vertically in your rice in any of these cultures but Korea it is also taboo to rest them to the left of your spoon while in Vietnam you generally take pains to make sure they are resting parallel to each other and not in a V shape while the japnese will not leave chopsticks to rest on the table. These differences and similaarities expose deep insights about the similarities and differences between the cultures. The reason for the different outcomes after contact with the western powers become apparent when you take these differences in chopstick etiquette into account. This is why Japan was quick to adopt western practices while Vietnam was able to repel these influences and China had to undergo much more painful adjustments. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > East Asian civilization is basically all the Chinese influenced countries in Asia (thus ruling out India and Indonesia). Their main handicap in falling behind the West were due to cultural reasons such as the lack of competition among the countries due to the domination of China in the region. They say that whenever China is invaded the invaders become Chinese. kind of like the greeks in that sense. > [@al27052](#): > > South Korea doesn’t have this problem. I think this is partially due to its rejection of Chinese culture and influence, and also partially its embracing of Western attitudes and culture. However, I could be totally wrong about the _reasons_ for South Korea’s stunning track record re: innovations. The track record is there, either way. Its mostly the different approach to chopsticks. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And presumably a strong-swimming breed of horses, too. 😉 um.. you can also fly to Japan so the horses didn’t need to know how to swim. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_With\_The\_Golden\_Gun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Man\_With\_The\_Golden\_Gun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_With_The_Golden_Gun)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/54 "2012-05-10T22:03:10Z")
So, **Eastwest99** , how’d you do on the exam? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/55 "2012-05-11T00:53:46Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Especially toward the members who keep trying to give serious answers. 😉 > > Y’see, **Eastwest99** and any other students who might want help with homework, this board is made up of one half class clowns, one half smartest kids in the class, and one half dumb schlubs like you and me. The fractions don’t work because there’s an awful lot of people who were in both the first and second groups. > > ETA: **Unless you were never taught fractions, in which case they add up just fine.** I may have gotten the wrong answer but I understood what I was doing. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/56 "2012-05-11T02:22:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > um.. you can also fly to Japan so the horses didn’t need to know how to swim. Are the horse flies really that big in Korea? Because my dog likes to catch the ones here on the wing, but they are no bigger than cocktail shrimp. ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/57 "2012-05-11T15:58:52Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > East Asian civilization is basically all the Chinese influenced countries in Asia (thus ruling out India and Indonesia). Their main handicap in falling behind the West were due to cultural reasons such as the lack of competition among the countries due to the domination of China in the region. C- See me after class ---
**Author:** ![independentDemocrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ba9def/32.png) [@independentDemocrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/independentDemocrat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/58 "2012-05-11T16:19:10Z")
well, for one they all have amazing Chinese food lol! j/k but their cultures and views towards religion & politics are far more diverse than Europe will ever be. You can not really look at the region as a whole (especially since they ironically hate each other). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/59 "2012-05-11T18:40:01Z")
> [@independentDemocrat](#): > > well, for one they all have amazing Chinese food lol! j/k > > but their cultures and views towards religion & politics are far more diverse than Europe will ever be. You can not really look at the region as a whole (especially since they ironically hate each other). Its just typical nationalistic tribalism. Except for Japan, people really hate Japan. See rape of Nanking. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173/60 "2012-05-12T00:00:31Z")
What if we all gave consistently wrong answers ? We’be responsible for him failing his homework assignment . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/east-asian-civilization/621173.md?page=4)