# Eastern Canadians - explain "energy poverty" grandma situation **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 15, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233 "2017-01-15T17:13:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/1 "2017-01-15T17:13:28Z")
A [story](http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/grandmother-living-in-energy-poverty-makes-tearful-plea-to-pm-trudeau-1.3239839) making the rounds this week says > [@CTV News](#): > > A grandmother tearfully confronted Trudeau about Ottawa’s planned carbon tax, saying her already steep energy bills have left her struggling to put food on the table for her family, even though she works 15 hours per day. and elsewhere > [@](#): > > “My heat and hydro now cost me more than my mortgage. I now not only work 75 hours a week, I stay and work 15 hours a day just so I don’t lose my home,” she told Trudeau, > […] > Katula said her hydro bill has reached as high as $1,085, which put her into “energy poverty.” Just BTW I think it’s weird that you guys keep calling your power bill “hydro”. I don’t call mine “coal”, but anyway; I clearly don’t understand the first thing about this story, as it doesn’t make any sense to me at all. For a start, since they do mention the term “hydro”, I didn’t think the carbon tax would apply to power generated that way. Secondly, how on earth do you end up with utilities greater than your mortgage payments??? I have to assume that the 1,085 figure is monthly, but… _how_? 😕 I dug through some old bills from when I owned a (small, but fairly old and poorly insulated) house. The highest gas bill I could find was $62; for power bills it was $85… with only 48 of that for actual electrons. What am I missing here? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/2 "2017-01-15T17:25:13Z")
I don’t know the details of her story, but we live in an old, poorly insulated house, and our monthly gas bill can run to over a couple of hundred. The amount quoted by the grammie seems high to me ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/3 "2017-01-15T17:31:09Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/4 "2017-01-15T17:34:06Z")
> [@](#): > > For a start, since they do mention the term “hydro”, I didn’t think the carbon tax would apply to power generated that way. In Canada, hydroelectricity was historically so prevalent the electric bill is often called the “hydro bill” no matter what the actual generation method is. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/5 "2017-01-15T18:02:18Z")
I live in Ontario, and our electric bill is ~$120 a month and our winter gas bill is ~$300. However, that gas bill is deceptively low because our gas utility does some hocus-pocus to spread payments over the whole year. So considering that electrical heating is more expensive than natural gas heating ([here’s an article claiming that someone pays $0.04 per kWh for gas and $0.19 per kWh for electricity in Ottawa, for instance](http://canadianenergyissues.com/2015/02/09/the-cost-of-energy-a-comparison-of-fuels-in-ontario/)), the figure of $1000/month doesn’t seem impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/6 "2017-01-15T18:04:36Z")
Here’s the Petersborough, Ont. official page of [rates and service charges](http://www.peterboroughutilities.ca/Customer_Service/Rates_and_Service_Charges.htm). You need to click on a link to get the specific rates. It says most people are on [Time-of-Use](http://www.ontarioenergyboard.ca/OEB/Consumers/Electricity/Electricity+Prices#rpp) prices. On-peak pricing, the highest, is 18c/kh. That would take 6027 kilowatt-hours of use to reach $1085. But only a few hours on weekdays are on-peak. Most of the week, 108 hours, are off-peak at 8.7c/kw, which would more than double the number of hours needed to get to $1,085. I’d investigate granny to see if she had a pot farm in her house. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/7 "2017-01-15T18:26:26Z")
> [@Nanoda](#): > > Secondly, how on earth do you end up with utilities greater than your mortgage payments??? Long term fixed-rate mortgage, payments fixed a long time ago and inflation has made them comically small? I agree that seems very hokey. The woman is either in a very strange situation, or she is a plant (or both). ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/8 "2017-01-15T18:43:59Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > In Canada, hydroelectricity was historically so prevalent the electric bill is often called the “hydro bill” no matter what the actual generation method is. Depends where you are. We don’t call it “hydro” in Saskatchewan. It’s “power”. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/9 "2017-01-15T21:20:05Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Depends where you are. We don’t call it “hydro” in Saskatchewan. It’s “power”. “Hydro” is a very Ontario-Quebec term. It to a long time for me to stop using the word (and being faced with incomprehension) after moving away. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/10 "2017-01-15T21:21:34Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > Long term fixed-rate mortgage, payments fixed a long time ago and inflation has made them comically small? > > I agree that seems very hokey. The woman is either in a very strange situation, or she is a plant (or both). Canadian mortgages aren’t usually very long term. Sure they’re amortized over 25-30 years, but the term is often only 3-5 years for most people. Longer terms are available (I’ve seen 10 years advertised) but I don’t think they are very popular. She could very well have a tiny principle balance left if she’s been there for many years. I have seen comically high energy bills from older (poorly insulated) homes out east. An old co-worker of mine had moved to Ontario from Nova Scotia, and was still trying to sell his house. His heating bill for a month was $600-$800 :eek:. Needless to say he was very interested in selling ASAP. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/11 "2017-01-15T21:59:11Z")
I happen to live in Ontario. My house is heated with a fotced-air electric furnace, and my hot water heater is electric. As of a few years back I am the sole occupant of said house and do just about everything I can to reduce electricity usage. $400 a month is not uncommon in the winter. I could easily see $600 a month now with a family living there. This is a 1,700 square foot bungalow with a semi-finished basement. Due to separation, court costs, and plain old shit, I got behind my bills over a couple of years. Although I was paying electricity whenever I could, I could not get caught up, and had my service disconnected last spring. It cost me (well, a family member) over $5,000 to get service restored. It’s not just usage; we are charged for “delivery” and until now, 13 tax. The very unpopular provincial Liberal government just removed the 8 provincial portion of that tax, but simultaneously cancelled a 10 green energy rebate on electricity. We are mammothly overcharged and from what I gather a lot of it is due to defined benefit pension obligations. Sent from my adequate mobile device using Tapatalk. ---
**Author:** ![Dancer\_Flight](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dancer_flight/32/7601_2.png) [@Dancer\_Flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancer_Flight)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/12 "2017-01-15T22:00:05Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > “Hydro” is a very Ontario-Quebec term. It to a long time for me to stop using the word (and being faced with incomprehension) after moving away. Also a BC term (given our terrain, hydroelectric is the main (sole?) means of generating electricity out here). ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/13 "2017-01-15T22:00:13Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I happen to live in Ontario. My house is heated with a forced-air electric furnace, and my hot water heater is electric. > As of a few years back I am the sole occupant of said house and do just about everything I can to reduce electricity usage. > $400 a month is not uncommon in the winter. I could easily see $600 a month now with a family living there. > This is a 1,700 square foot bungalow with a semi-finished basement. > Due to separation, court costs, and plain old shit, I got behind my bills over a couple of years. Although I was paying electricity whenever I could, I could not get caught up, and had my service disconnected last spring. > It cost me (well, a family member) over $5,000 to get service restored. > It’s not just usage; we are charged for “delivery” and until now, 13 tax. The very unpopular provincial Liberal government just removed the 8 provincial portion of that tax, but simultaneously cancelled a 10 green energy rebate on electricity. > We are mammothly overcharged and from what I gather a lot of it is due to defined benefit pension obligations. > > Sent from my adequate mobile device using Tapatalk. Sent from my adequate mobile device using Tapatalk. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/14 "2017-01-15T22:01:40Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I happen to live in Ontario. My house is heated with a fotced-air electric furnace, and my hot water heater is electric. > As of a few years back I am the sole occupant of said house and do just about everything I can to reduce electricity usage. > $400 a month is not uncommon in the winter. I could easily see $600 a month now with a family living there. > This is a 1,700 square foot bungalow with a semi-finished basement. > Due to separation, court costs, and plain old shit, I got behind my bills over a couple of years. Although I was paying electricity whenever I could, I could not get caught up, and had my service disconnected last spring. > It cost me (well, a family member) over $5,000 to get service restored. > It’s not just usage; we are charged for “delivery” and until now, 13 tax. The very unpopular provincial Liberal government just removed the 8 provincial portion of that tax, but simultaneously cancelled a 10 green energy rebate on electricity. > We are mammothly overcharged and from what I gather a lot of it is due to defined benefit pension obligations. > > Sent from my adequate mobile device using Tapatalk. Sent from my adequate mobile device using Tapatalk. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/15 "2017-01-15T22:02:00Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > Long term fixed-rate mortgage, payments fixed a long time ago and inflation has made them comically small? > > I agree that seems very hokey. The woman is either in a very strange situation, or she is a plant (or both). Well, my heating bill (oil heat) has hit $800/month, with an extra $100 for electric when oil prices are high (and I didn’t have much insulation). My mortgage (paid off now) was never more than $350. So it’s certainly possible to be paying more for heat than for your mortgage. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/16 "2017-01-15T22:02:42Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I happen to live in Ontario. My house is heated with a fotced-air electric furnace, and my hot water heater is electric. > As of a few years back I am the sole occupant of said house and do just about everything I can to reduce electricity usage. > $400 a month is not uncommon in the winter. I could easily see $600 a month now with a family living there. > This is a 1,700 square foot bungalow with a semi-finished basement. > Due to separation, court costs, and plain old shit, I got behind my bills over a couple of years. Although I was paying electricity whenever I could, I could not get caught up, and had my service disconnected last spring. > It cost me (well, a family member) over $5,000 to get service restored. > It’s not just usage; we are charged for “delivery” and until now, 13 percent tax. The very unpopular provincial Liberal government just removed the 8 percent provincial portion of that tax, but simultaneously cancelled a 10 percent green energy rebate on electricity. > We are mammothly overcharged and from what I gather a lot of it is due to defined benefit pension obligations. > > Sent from my adequate mobile device using Tapatalk. Sent from my adequate mobile device using Tapatalk. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/17 "2017-01-15T22:04:05Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I happen to live in Ontario. My house is heated with a fotced-air electric furnace, and my hot water heater is electric. > As of a few years back I am the sole occupant of said house and do just about everything I can to reduce electricity usage. > $400 a month is not uncommon in the winter. I could easily see $600 a month now with a family living there. > This is a 1,700 square foot bungalow with a semi-finished basement. > Due to separation, court costs, and plain old shit, I got behind my bills over a couple of years. Although I was paying electricity whenever I could, I could not get caught up, and had my service disconnected last spring. > It cost me (well, a family member) over $5,000 to get service restored. > It’s not just usage; we are charged for “delivery” and until now, 13 tax. The very unpopular provincial Liberal government just removed the 8 provincial portion of that tax, but simultaneously cancelled a 10 green energy rebate on electricity. > We are mammothly overcharged and from what I gather a lot of it is due to defined benefit pension obligations. > > Sent from my adequate mobile device using Tapatalk. Apparently the percent symbol doesn’t render in Tapatalk. Sent from my adequate mobile device using Tapatalk. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/18 "2017-01-15T22:05:25Z")
And many other issues. Apologies. Sent from my adequate mobile device using Tapatalk. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/19 "2017-01-15T22:07:20Z")
A Tapatalk device you say? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233/20 "2017-01-15T22:11:31Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > A Tapatalk device you say? Sorry! Sent from my adequate mobile device using Tapatalk. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eastern-canadians-explain-energy-poverty-grandma-situation/777233.md?page=2)