# Easternmost point in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 22, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easternmost-point-in-the-u-s/474033 "2008-11-22T21:20:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easternmost-point-in-the-u-s/474033/21 "2008-11-23T05:32:07Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > That’s not quite true. As was pointed out in the OP, the very far end of the tip of Alaska is actually on the other side of the IDL by 11 seconds of longitute. No part of Alaska is on the ‘other side’ of the International Date Line. The majority of the state is on Alaska Time (standard time is UTC -9) (despite covering more than 30º of longitude), with some of the western Aleutians, including Semisopochnoi Island, on Hawaii-Aleutian Time (UTC -10). The International Date Line only has a little bit to do with 180º from the Prime Meridian. It’s simply a matter of which time zone the country decides to be in. That’s why there isn’t really a ‘line’ to be crossed except in the case of international borders or if you decide to change clocks when on the ocean. In Alaska’s case it’s even two hours off from where it ‘ought’ to be if you consider that 180º ‘ought’ to be UTC +/- 12. Also, I said ‘latitude’ in my earlier post when I meant ‘longitude’. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easternmost-point-in-the-u-s/474033/22 "2008-11-23T07:38:36Z")
You’re right, I was thinking poorly. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easternmost-point-in-the-u-s/474033/23 "2008-11-23T08:12:23Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > So are you suggesting that the lat/lon system is global, except for the U.S.? Last I checked, the U.S. is on the globe. Therefore, when talking about the limits of its states it seems to me that using the globally-accepted standard makes sense. Anything else is relative Where’s the datum? For aircraft the datum is often not even on the airframe. So it makes more sense to use (the admittedly arbitrary, but nevertheless established) Prime Meridian to describe a country’s boundaries. The Greenwich-based lat-long system was standardized mainly so that ships of different nationalities could exchange navigation information without tedious and error-prone mathematical conversion. So it’s basically meant for navigation. We use it for other purposes, but there are times (and this is one of them) where it doesn’t make sense to use it. The US is not the only country where using the Greenwich zero point leads to such silliness. The 180th meridian goes through part of Russia, for example.[sup]1[/sup] Are you going to insist that the westernmost point in Russia is a thin line located one yoctometer east of the 180 meridian? Most people would not agree. For those who want to set up our own meridian in the US, we did have one before everyone[sup]2[/sup] agreed to use Greenwich in the 1880s. It was based on the Naval Observatory in Washington DC. Because of this, most of the north-south state boundaries in western states are about 7 minutes (IIRC) off whole-number Greenwich meridians. [sup]1[/sup] Fiji and Kiribati also bracket the 180th meridian, and thus have the same issue. [sup]2[/sup] Well, the French were all pissy about it, but they eventually came around. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easternmost-point-in-the-u-s/474033/24 "2008-11-23T09:27:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Ah, I was not aware of the context. In this case, Maine was completely correct, since the standard for measurement is that you cut at the International Date Line. The IDL mostly coincides with the 180 degree longitude line, but it zigs and zags around geographic features, such that all of Alaska is east of it. The first point in the US (excluding territories) to greet the new year would in fact be the tip of Maine. The new year comes only ten days after the winter solstice. At that time of year, for two points at the same longitude, the more southerly one will have an earlier sunrise and a later sunset. So, does the easternmost point of Maine still get the first sunrise of the new year, or does that southerly advantage give it to some place like Cape Cod or the coast of Florida? And by how many minutes are they separated? ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easternmost-point-in-the-u-s/474033/25 "2008-11-23T13:18:29Z")
It appears to be a close thing. The time of sunrise at various points on the eastern seaboard on December 31, 2008 (the site I link only lists through the end of th year that I can figure out). Assuming accuracy of the site, of course. Lubec, ME - [7:06am](http://www.superpages.com/cities/suntimes.cgi?MO=Dec&T=Lubec&S=ME) Chatham, MA - [7:07am](http://www.superpages.com/cities/suntimes.cgi?MO=Dec&T=Chatham&S=MA) Nag’s Head, NC - [7:13am](http://www.superpages.com/cities/suntimes.cgi?MO=Dec&T=Nags%20Head&S=NC) North Palm Beach, FL - [7:09am]([http://www.superpages.com/cities/suntimes.cgi?MO=Dec&T=North](http://www.superpages.com/cities/suntimes.cgi?MO=Dec&T=North) Palm Beach&S=FL) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easternmost-point-in-the-u-s/474033/26 "2008-11-23T13:41:45Z")
I think the XKCD comic linked above summarizes the various arguments perfectly. When your reference point (“me” in the comic) is more or less on the other side of the world from Greenwich, then the “east oughta be West & vice versa” issue comes to the fore. If your reference point is in, say, Berlin, then East & Easternmost are in the same direction. Finally, because we are on a sphere, wherever your set your reference point there is going to ba a place where proceeding east & proceding west from reference meet up on the other side, and at the point you _will_ have a discontinuity. The folks above who’re trying to say that any definition containing a discontinuity must be wrong, are, IMHO, wrong. Picking a definition where there doesn’t happen to be land at the discontinuity today is an argument from coincidence. What if an undersea volcano broke the surface at your chosen discontinuity & the US claimed it? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easternmost-point-in-the-u-s/474033/27 "2008-11-23T17:49:21Z")
> [@](#): > > So, does the easternmost point of Maine still get the first sunrise of the new year, or does that southerly advantage give it to some place like Cape Cod or the coast of Florida? And by how many minutes are they separated? Oh, I was assuming first midnight, not first sunrise. I can’t answer the first sunrise question off the top of my head, but I suspect it’d be somewhere in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easternmost-point-in-the-u-s/474033/28 "2008-11-23T18:19:13Z")
To throw another wrinkle into this, if what you are going to be concerned about is what location actually receives the first sunlight (assuming a clear day), rather than calculated sunrise time, you have to consider local geography, and it will probably be an inland mountain peak. This NY Times page sort of confirms something I’d always heard: [http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A06E5DE143BF930A25752C0A967948260](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A06E5DE143BF930A25752C0A967948260) > [@](#): > > Q. Where on the United States mainland do the first rays of sunlight fall? > > A. The point to receive the first rays of sunlight depends on the season and the atmospheric conditions and cannot be definitely determined. However, at the vernal and autumnal equinoxes and the summer solstice, the first rays of sunlight usually fall on Mount Katahdin in north-central Maine. Cadillac Mountain on Mount Desert Island off the coast of Maine receives the first rays of sunshine at the winter solstice. Katahdin is roughly 100 miles west (and some distance north) of Quoddy Head. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easternmost-point-in-the-u-s/474033/29 "2008-11-23T18:34:33Z")
> [@panamajack](#): > > No part of Alaska is on the ‘other side’ of the International Date Line. The majority of the state is on Alaska Time (standard time is UTC -9) (despite covering more than 30º of longitude), with some of the western Aleutians, including Semisopochnoi Island, on Hawaii-Aleutian Time (UTC -10). > > The International Date Line only has a little bit to do with 180º from the Prime Meridian. It’s simply a matter of which time zone the country decides to be in. That’s why there isn’t really a ‘line’ to be crossed except in the case of international borders or if you decide to change clocks when on the ocean. In Alaska’s case it’s even two hours off from where it ‘ought’ to be if you consider that 180º ‘ought’ to be UTC +/- 12. Yeah, the only point in the US where you can go east and go _back_ in time is the New Mexico/Texas border. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easternmost-point-in-the-u-s/474033/30 "2008-11-23T22:02:54Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > However, at the vernal and autumnal equinoxes and the summer solstice, the first rays of sunlight usually fall on Mount Katahdin in north-central Maine. Cadillac Mountain on Mount Desert Island off the coast of Maine receives the first rays of sunshine at the winter solstice. I suppose that makes sense, given that the entire state of Florida is about 2 feet tall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easternmost-point-in-the-u-s/474033.md?page=1)