# Easy Answers for Fictional Dilemmas **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 15, 2025, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080 "2025-04-15T20:26:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/61 "2025-04-16T15:53:14Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Re The Eagles > > First, in case anybody doesn’t know they are not just large birds. They are sentient beings. Their leader goes by Gwaihir the wind lord. There is a big question on how quickly one of the eagles would be corruped by the One Ring. Great, are they immortal? I ask because the Nazgul’s swords are scary even to sentient beings. And I was figuring a Hobbit riding on a bird and throwing it in the volcano as they fly by, not the bird going invisible and being corrupted. It’s just not a, “If Indiana Jones hadn’t looked for the Ark the Nazi’s never would have found it.” plot fail ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/62 "2025-04-16T15:55:12Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > So, using the Eagles would be a race- can they get to Mount Doom before being corrupted? Given that even Frodo failed in the end, the answer is no. Sauron believed that _no one_ could willingly destroy the Ring, and by the evidence he was correct. Gollum fell into the Crack of Doom, nobody actually destroyed the Ring on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/63 "2025-04-16T16:01:58Z")
Khan!!! ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/64 "2025-04-16T16:03:41Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Great, are they immortal? I ask because the Nazgul’s swords are scary even to sentient beings. I don’t know if they are immortal or just very long lived. Yes, the Nazgul would certainly be a threat. > [@](#): > > And I was figuring a Hobbit riding on a bird and throwing it in the volcano as they fly by, That would be impossible. I know in the films, there is no exposed lava and they need to walk inside to find some. I haven’t read the books in a while, but I remember that being the case there as well. The eagles would need to land and somebody would need to carry the Ring into the mountain to drop it. > [@](#): > > not the bird going invisible and being corrupted. I never said one of the eagles would wear the Ring. That would make them **more** visible to Sauron and the Ring Wraiths. Just being around the Ring corrupted Boromir. Just studying about the Ring without ever even seeing it corrupted Saruman. It would eventually corrupt any sentient being. The question is simply how long it would take. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/65 "2025-04-16T16:05:57Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I don’t know if they are immortal or just very long lived. Yes, the Nazgul would certainly be a threat. Like the elves, they’re unageing but can be killed. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/66 "2025-04-16T16:12:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Sauron believed that _no one_ could willingly destroy the Ring, and by the evidence he was correct. Indeed, I take the One Ring to allegorically be desire itself: you couldn’t _want_ **anything** and not want the One Ring. It took the self-abnegation of a saint for Bilbo to surrender the Ring and even then he couldn’t truly get over it. Nobody could willingly destroy the Ring having once had it, and losing the Ring meant that both Bilbo and Frodo could find no peace in this world, they had to go to the Undying Lands to be healed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/67 "2025-04-16T16:16:36Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Yes, the Nazgul would certainly be a threat. The main issue is that, just like some jet fighters carrying a bunch of heavy ordnance, the eagles couldn’t dogfight the fell beasts on any remotely even playing field, as long as they were determined to hold onto their precious cargo. > [@DocCathode](#): > > It would eventually corrupt any sentient being. Except Tom Bombadil. [/grins, ducks, runs like hell] ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/68 "2025-04-16T16:30:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Should I stay, or should I go now? > Should I stay, or should I go now? > If I go, there will be trouble > And if I stay, it will be double I mean, one of those options is literally twice as worse as the other. You should obviously go. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/69 "2025-04-16T16:33:50Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Khan!!! I know, right? We don’t know anything about this guy, and he’s being really evasive when we ask questions, but we don’t want look like dicks so let’s just give him access to everything. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/70 "2025-04-16T16:37:15Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Except Tom Bombadil. [/grins, ducks, runs like hell] Tom Bombadil actually proves the point; he was immune to the Ring in part because he was _utterly indifferent_ to it. Which was also why it couldn’t just be left with him, because he’d inevitably simply forget about it and leave it unguarded somewhere. The Hobbits did as well as they did because they were so unambitious, but still focused enough for a goal like “go to Mordor to destroy the Ring”. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/71 "2025-04-16T16:45:18Z")
I still expect a logical explanation about the submarine ride to the island! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/72 "2025-04-16T17:07:43Z")
That’s easy - it was possible because it happened off-screen. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/73 "2025-04-16T17:12:37Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I still expect a logical explanation about the submarine ride to the island! That bugged me on the very first viewing! How utterly stupid! Later I realized that there’s no way they could even get the Ark inside the sub. The openings are too small. So (even though you can see clearly it isn’t) it must be tied to the deck. So it can’t submerge. Indy is safe from drowning! But all ships, submarines, too, post lookouts while moving. He’s caught! Easy solution: the Nazis use…a ship! ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/74 "2025-04-16T18:14:40Z")
During that era, submarines only submerged to attack - otherwise they stayed on the surface, where they could travel faster. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/75 "2025-04-16T18:18:48Z")
Ah, this I know! They specifically show the crew preparing to dive however. Anyway, Mangetout pretty much nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/76 "2025-04-16T18:26:45Z")
It’s ahistorical but they could have shown the sub running at periscope/[snorkel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_snorkel) depth, with Indy clinging to the mast for dear life. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/77 "2025-04-16T18:53:17Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > So which would you rather have: a short story or a 1000 page novel? I’d rather they just addressed that topic head-on, like have an earlier, ill-fated attempt to destroy it by eagle. (Also, I never read the books… they were far too long for me =/ Only saw the movies and played a bunch of games. So sadly, I’d prefer a short story…) Anyway, it seemed like (at least in the video games, which probably aren’t canon?) there are a lot more eagles than there were the flying giraffe-lizard-things that the witch kings ride on. Sure, there were crows and such too, but in general the skies around Mt. Doom seemed less fortified than the land passages. Even if it took a hundred eagles mounted by a bunch of hobbits and their supporting army, all of which could be clearly noticed by their crows and scouts, that still seems like it would’ve been a higher chance of success than 3 people spending weeks on foot. If you could’ve made some mithril armor for the eagles, combined with invisibility-rock cloaks, even better. I dunno, it just seems like all the aerial stuff was underutilized and never really explained much, at least in the movies. The aerial mounts could’ve been a much bigger part of the overall strategy and tactics that the different factions used, but they were just occasional and rather minor threats. Like when Gandalf summoned a moth and escaped the tower he was being held captive on… why isn’t that something he used more frequently? Or if dragons were a regular part of the landscape like in the dwarf sequels (or were they prequels?), surely they could be employed in battle more often? I would’ve loved to see a spinoff with a One Ring-corrupted super-gollum-dragon instead of some innocent hobbit. Not really “plot hole”, I guess, just… strange. IMHO the stories would’ve made more sense either without any giant flying things, or where they were utilized much more often and had to be specifically defended against (like the giant anti-dragon ballistae in Game of Thrones). ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/78 "2025-04-16T19:05:59Z")
Every two person “Mexican standoff”. Just shoot first. As Tuco (The Good, the Bad and the Ugly) says, “When it’s time to shoot, shoot. Don’t talk”. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/79 "2025-04-16T19:06:58Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > submarines only submerged to attack - otherwise they stayed on the surface, But they posted lookouts, and sometimes had men working topside, if something needed to be done. Not a lot of places to hide. And a very easy solution is available if you caught someone who shouldn’t be there. And are a Nazi. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080/80 "2025-04-16T19:22:49Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Anyway, it seemed like (at least in the video games, which probably aren’t canon?) there are a lot more eagles than there were the flying giraffe-lizard-things that the witch kings ride on. Nothing is canon except Tolkine’s published books and the appendices in them. I forget how many giant eagles there were. There were at most nine fell beasts- one for each Nazgul. > [@](#): > > Sure, there were crows and such too, but in general the skies around Mt. Doom seemed less fortified than the land passages. There were corrupted crows almost everywhere. While not a threat individually in battle, they were a vast and effective spy network. In battle, several hundred crows attacking at once woud be fatal. > [@](#): > > Even if it took a hundred eagles mounted by a bunch of hobbits and their supporting army, all of which could be clearly noticed by their crows and scouts, that still seems like it would’ve been a higher chance of success than 3 people spending weeks on foot. Incorrect. Once Sauron knew about the giant eagles and their mission, he would have done anything in his power to stop them. Frodo, Sam and Gollum succeeded precisely because nobody noticed them. > [@](#): > > If you could’ve made some mithril armor for the eagles, combined with invisibility-rock cloaks, even better. Mithril was rare to start with and is even rarer in that age. Thorin gave Bilbo a mithril chain mail shirt. One of the Fellowship sees the shirt and says it is “worth the Shire and everything in it.” I assume you mean the Elven cloaks recieved in Lothlorien? They do not make you invisible. They change color to help you blend in. > [@](#): > > I dunno, it just seems like all the aerial stuff was underutilized and never really explained much, at least in the movies. The aerial mounts could’ve been a much bigger part of the overall strategy and tactics that the different factions used, but they were just occasional and rather minor threats. Like when Gandalf summoned a moth and escaped the tower he was being held captive on… why isn’t that something he used more frequently? In the books, Radghast sends a giant eagle to fetch Gandalf when he is late for a meeting. In the movie Gandalf does not summon a moth. He happens to catch a passing moth and uses it to relay a mesage. > [@](#): > > Or if dragons were a regular part of the landscape like in the dwarf sequels (or were they prequels?), surely they could be employed in battle more often? I would’ve loved to see a spinoff with a One Ring-corrupted super-gollum-dragon instead of some innocent hobbit. Smaug was the last dragon. He was very minor as dragons go. By the time of the Fellowship, there are no dragons. > [@](#): > > Not really “plot hole”, I guess, just… strange. IMHO the stories would’ve made more sense either without any giant flying things, or where they were utilized much more often and had to be specifically defended against (like the giant anti-dragon ballistae in Game of Thrones). You admit to never having read the books. You admit to a poor understanding of the films-You say “the dwarf sequels (or were they prequels?)” .None of what you mentioned is a plot hole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-answers-for-fictional-dilemmas/1017080.md?page=5)