# Easy Solution To Gangs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 2, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017 "2009-08-02T00:26:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/1 "2009-08-02T00:26:00Z")
I’ve been wondering, to solve the problem of gangs, wouldn’t it be easy if being a member of a certain gang was illegal and made a felony? Then there’d be no need for looking at every trivial thing in order to bring a mobster or a thug to justice. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/2 "2009-08-02T00:27:54Z")
Boy it sure would. Just declare people guilty, and you can cart them off to jail whenever you like. That got rid of that problem, now let’s tackle health care! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/3 "2009-08-02T00:37:35Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > …now let’s tackle health care! Instead of wasting all that money on doctors and laboratories, when someone feels a bit ill, wouldn’t it be easier just to give them every kind of medicine, all at once? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/4 "2009-08-02T00:43:51Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Boy it sure would. Just declare people guilty, and you can cart them off to jail whenever you like. That got rid of that problem, now let’s tackle health care! No, if it’s proven if you are a member of a criminal organizations that it would be punishable as a felony. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/5 "2009-08-02T00:45:25Z")
There are several problems. First, as a democracy we have freedom of assembly and association; a law against being “in a gang” would almost certainly be unconstitutional. The closest thing to that that I’m aware of was a 50’s law that defined the American Communist Party as being dedicated to the violent overthrow of the government and membership in the ACP as tantamont to being a member of a conspiracy to treason. This was at the height of the Cold War, and I doubt any law like that one would pass muster today. Maybe if a particular organization was declared a criminal syndicate you could go after it’s members under something like the RICO act, but that’s still iffy. The biggest problem though would probably be defining who is a “member” of an outlawed organization. Short of an official members list, how do you prove someone is “in” a particular gang (if they don’t do something stupid like having unique gang tatoos). It would quickly become a matter of guilt by association as family members and friends of accused people would themselves become accused. In short, in a democracy you have to prosecute deeds- not thoughts or, except in the rarest cases, intentions or words. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/6 "2009-08-02T00:51:19Z")
And, you’d probably have harmless groups getting declared “gangs” and getting cracked down on by officials who have an agenda or are simply incompetent. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/7 "2009-08-02T00:56:20Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > There are several problems. First, as a democracy we have freedom of assembly and association; a law against being “in a gang” would almost certainly be unconstitutional. The closest thing to that that I’m aware of was a 50’s law that defined the American Communist Party as being dedicated to the violent overthrow of the government and membership in the ACP as tantamont to being a member of a conspiracy to treason. This was at the height of the Cold War, and I doubt any law like that one would pass muster today. Maybe if a particular organization was declared a criminal syndicate you could go after it’s members under something like the RICO act, but that’s still iffy. > > The biggest problem though would probably be defining who is a “member” of an outlawed organization. Short of an official members list, how do you prove someone is “in” a particular gang (if they don’t do something stupid like having unique gang tatoos). It would quickly become a matter of guilt by association as family members and friends of accused people would themselves become accused. > > In short, in a democracy you have to prosecute deeds- not thoughts or, except in the rarest cases, intentions or words. The police know for instance several hundred members of the Mafia but they all aren’t in jail because they hide their crimes so well that charges can’t be proven. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/8 "2009-08-02T00:58:40Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > The police know for instance several hundred members of the Mafia but they all aren’t in jail because they hide their crimes so well that charges can’t be proven. And if you took away that limitation the police could jail anyone, innocent or guilty. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/9 "2009-08-02T01:01:37Z")
The OPs suggestion is practically in effect already, in L.A. Once your name gets on the gang database list, it’s there forever, and it can cause you all kinds of grief. Probation and parole conditions almost always prohibit you from association with other members of any other gang. If a gang cop sees you simply stopping to talk with one in the park, he or she can lock you up. It’s not really a solution to gangs, it just moves 'em into the jails and prisons. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/10 "2009-08-02T01:02:45Z")
There are no gangs in the US. There are only, um… “clubs” or “community outreach clubs”. Yeah. That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/11 "2009-08-02T01:18:39Z")
How is what the OP suggests so very different from the use of RICO legislation against the Hell’s Angels **club** in 1979 and the Latin Kings **club** in 2006? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/12 "2009-08-02T01:25:00Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > The OPs suggestion is practically in effect already, in L.A. Once your name gets on the gang database list, it’s there forever, and it can cause you all kinds of grief. Probation and parole conditions almost always prohibit you from association with other members of any other gang. If a gang cop sees you simply stopping to talk with one in the park, he or she can lock you up. It’s not really a solution to gangs, it just moves 'em into the jails and prisons. And it has worked. Crime in California has dropped to levels not seen since the 50s, at least partially due to the fact that a whole bunch of gangsters (are rightfully in my opinion) rotting in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/13 "2009-08-02T01:41:27Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > And it has worked. Crime in California has dropped to levels not seen since the 50s, at least partially due to the fact that a whole bunch of gangsters (are rightfully in my opinion) rotting in jail. Crime rates in general have gone down across the country, IIRC. I doubt it’s due to anything that California specifically did. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/14 "2009-08-02T01:43:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Crime rates in general have gone down across the country, IIRC. I doubt it’s due to anything that California specifically did. And they have instituted strict anti-gang policies across the country too. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/15 "2009-08-02T01:58:34Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I’ve been wondering, to solve the problem of gangs, wouldn’t it be easy if being a member of a certain gang was illegal and made a felony? Then there’d be no need for looking at every trivial thing in order to bring a mobster or a thug to justice. Yep lets just strip people of their second amendment rights and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/16 "2009-08-02T03:09:38Z")
The OP asked an honest question and the first two replies were incredibly snarky and not at all useful. That just isn’t a great way to set the tone for a friendly message board. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/17 "2009-08-02T04:18:28Z")
The Bloods, the Crips, the Latin Kings, and MS13 don’t have membership rosters. (Neither does the Mafia.) So what do you do? Arrest everyone that’s wearing the wrong sports memorabilia? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/18 "2009-08-02T05:15:44Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > How is what the OP suggests so very different from the use of RICO legislation against the Hell’s Angels **club** in 1979 and the Latin Kings **club** in 2006? This is what I was going to say. I thought that [the RICO Act](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RICO) pretty much did this. Its purpose is explicitly to bust organized crime, of which street gangs are one type. From the article: > [@](#): > > Under RICO, a person who is a member of an enterprise that has committed any two of 35 crimes—27 federal crimes and 8 state crimes—within a 10-year period can be charged with racketeering. Those found guilty of racketeering can be fined up to $25,000 and/or sentenced to 20 years in prison per racketeering count. In addition, the racketeer must forfeit all ill-gotten gains and interest in any business gained through a pattern of “racketeering activity.” RICO also permits a private individual harmed by the actions of such an enterprise to file a civil suit; if successful, the individual can collect treble damages. This has been used, as noted, against the Latin Kings, and also the Gambino crime family. It’s not exclusively for busting gangs, but it can and has been used that way. ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/19 "2009-08-02T05:34:57Z")
Most of the hispanic gangs in California are controlled from within the prisons. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/20 "2009-08-02T05:45:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The Bloods, the Crips, the Latin Kings, and MS13 don’t have membership rosters. (Neither does the Mafia.) So what do you do? Arrest everyone that’s wearing the wrong sports memorabilia? That’d be poetic irony. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017.md?page=2)