# Easy Solution To Gangs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 2, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017 "2009-08-02T00:26:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/21 "2009-08-02T05:46:06Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > Most of the hispanic gangs in California are controlled from within the prisons. Yeah, Prison is both the university and the head office. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/22 "2009-08-02T21:41:08Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > Most of the hispanic gangs in California are controlled from within the prisons. Agreed, that’s why I also believe that gang member prisoners should be sent to prisoners outside the state. For instance Hispanic gang members should be sent to prisons in Montana or Alaska where there won’t be a strong gang backbone to work on. As a side note I also believe that juvenile delinquents from broken homes shouldn’t be just sent to juvie for a month and then back to the streets but taken by the government and either let them be adopted by families far away from inner cities or else become wards of the state. That was what was done in the slums of London and New York a century ago and will actually kill the symptom rather then just the results. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/23 "2009-08-02T21:43:01Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Agreed, that’s why I also believe that gang member prisoners should be sent to prisoners outside the state. For instance Hispanic gang members should be sent to prisons in Montana or Alaska where there won’t be a strong gang backbone to work on. As a side note I also believe that juvenile delinquents from broken homes shouldn’t be just sent to juvie for a month and then back to the streets but taken by the government and either let them be adopted by families far away from inner cities or else become wards of the state. That was what was done in the slums of London and New York a century ago and will actually kill the symptom rather then just the results. What’s to stop them from creating a backbone from which to work in other states? As for adopting troubled youth, good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/24 "2009-08-02T21:43:50Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Agreed, that’s why I also believe that gang member prisoners should be sent to prisoners outside the state. For instance Hispanic gang members should be sent to prisons in Montana or Alaska where there won’t be a strong gang backbone to work on. As a side note I also believe that juvenile delinquents from broken homes shouldn’t be just sent to juvie for a month and then back to the streets but taken by the government and either let them be adopted by families far away from inner cities or else become wards of the state. That was what was done in the slums of London and New York a century ago and will actually kill the symptom rather then just the results. Um, I believe the Citizens of the States of Montana and Alaska may take umbrage with your plan. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/25 "2009-08-02T21:45:51Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Um, I believe the Citizens of the States of Montana and Alaska may take umbrage with your plan. Why? It would create jobs and give them money. There was that town in Montana with a state of the art prison that was begging for them to send the Guantanamo Bay prisoners to them. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/26 "2009-08-02T21:49:28Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Why? It would create jobs and give them money. There was that town in Montana with a state of the art prison that was begging for them to send the Guantanamo Bay prisoners to them. I believe that was a federal prison. I don’t think most state jailhouses are running at 50% capacity, not when most states are having budget crises. EDIT: Besides, it’s not like California can afford to send them out of state anyways:D ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/27 "2009-08-02T21:50:52Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > I believe that was a federal prison. I don’t think most state jailhouses are running at 50% capacity, not when most states are having budget crises. > > EDIT: Besides, it’s not like California can afford to send them out of state anyways:D Well I’m assuming the Federal government is helping funding the program. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/28 "2009-08-02T21:51:29Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > I believe that was a federal prison. I don’t think most state jailhouses are running at 50% capacity, not when most states are having budget crises. > > EDIT: Besides, it’s not like California can afford to send them out of state anyways:D I don’t see how it would be more expensive to send them out of state than to keep them in state. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/29 "2009-08-02T21:56:28Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I don’t see how it would be more expensive to send them out of state than to keep them in state. You don’t think the Department of Corrections in Alaska would take the proverbial bull by the horns and upcharge? Transporting a prisoner to Montana or Alaska from California isn’t like driving from Los Angeles to Las Vegas for a friday night bender, you know? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/30 "2009-08-02T22:04:23Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > You don’t think the Department of Corrections in Alaska would take the proverbial bull by the horns and upcharge? Umm you’re leaving out the demand part in your supply/demand equation. You can only charge what demand will support. So no, if something like this were worked out I don’t think Alaska would charge so much that California couldn’t afford it. > [@](#): > > Transporting a prisoner to Montana or Alaska from California isn’t like driving from Los Angeles to Las Vegas for a friday night bender, you know? Right, but maybe it’s cheaper to store them once there. Gotta think of the cost of labor and other issues that affect a private prison in California vs Montana or Alaska. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/31 "2009-08-02T22:10:59Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Umm you’re leaving out the demand part in your supply/demand equation. You can only charge what demand will support. So no, if something like this were worked out I don’t think Alaska would charge so much that California couldn’t afford it. Dude, did you not miss how California was teetering on the brink of insolvency a few weeks ago. They can’t afford anything, period. > [@](#): > > Right, but maybe it’s cheaper to store them once there. Gotta think of the cost of labor and other issues that affect a private prison in California vs Montana or Alaska. and then transporting them back and forth for court appointments, parole hearings, etc. just admit that it’s a dumb idea that wouldn’t be supported by anyone and move along. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/32 "2009-08-02T22:17:19Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Dude, did you not miss how California was teetering on the brink of insolvency a few weeks ago. They can’t afford anything, period. So are they going to just let the prisoners they have go because they can’t afford them? > [@](#): > > and then transporting them back and forth for court appointments, parole hearings, etc. That’s a good point, though they do store some prisoners in other jurisdictions as it is. > [@](#): > > just admit that it’s a dumb idea that wouldn’t be supported by anyone and move along. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/33 "2009-08-02T22:18:19Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > So are they going to just let the prisoners they have go because they can’t afford them? No, but they sure aren’t going to pay more to jail them out of state. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/34 "2009-08-02T22:21:48Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > No, but they sure aren’t going to pay more to jail them out of state. You haven’t sufficiently demonstrated that it would cost more to keep them out of state. You haven’t addressed the notion that they’d get prisoners from other states. Nor have you addressed the idea that it would only be for known Gang Leaders in order to break up their ability to organize locally. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/35 "2009-08-02T22:35:29Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > You haven’t sufficiently demonstrated that it would cost more to keep them out of state. Because it goes without saying? If there are no costs to this, then I’m surprised some shithole state like North Dakota hasn’t started up a cottage industry to capture the market and provide some sort of economy to their state. > [@](#): > > Nor have you addressed the idea that it would only be for known Gang Leaders in order to break up their ability to organize locally. and idea that has just been presented here, de novo… > [@](#): > > that’s why I also believe that **gang member prisoners** should be sent to prisoners outside the state [bolding mine] [not your quote, i recognize this] ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/36 "2009-08-02T22:45:40Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > The OP asked an honest question and the first two replies were incredibly snarky and not at all useful. That just isn’t a great way to set the tone for a friendly message board. OK, I’m sorry about that. The OP is glossing over the fact that the idea seriously undermines any legal system that implements it. Presumably the goal of this proposal is the protection of the innocent public from the actions of gangs, but the proposal, if implemented, would endanger the public of arbitrary arrest and imprisonment without evidence. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/37 "2009-08-02T22:52:16Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Because it goes without saying? If there are no costs to this, then I’m surprised some shithole state like North Dakota hasn’t started up a cottage industry to capture the market and provide some sort of economy to their state. Things like this already occur. That’s the part you’re leaving out. > [@](#): > > and idea that has just been presented here, de novo… > > [bolding mine] [not your quote, i recognize this] I understand that, but the point is to break up gang leadership. States already engage in this sort of strategic disruption of gang information networks. So the reality of the suggestion is that it should be more comprehensive, as opposed to it being a completely new idea. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/38 "2009-08-02T22:53:04Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Instead of wasting all that money on doctors and laboratories, when someone feels a bit ill, wouldn’t it be easier just to give them every kind of medicine, all at once? Can I opt out of some things and get on the suppository plan? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/39 "2009-08-02T22:53:32Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Things like this already occur. That’s the part you’re leaving out. > I understand that, but the point is to break up gang leadership. States already engage in this sort of strategic disruption of gang information networks. So the reality of the suggestion is that it should be more comprehensive, as opposed to it being a completely new idea. Cite where states are outsourcing the imprisonment of their gang members? No, the point is that i commented on X and now you’re claiming Y is actually what the program is about. ---
**Author:** ![Sri\_Theo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Sri\_Theo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sri_Theo)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/40 "2009-08-03T00:17:14Z")
Hmm of the top of my head I remember an article from the Economist about gangs and how they spread, one of the methods they mentioned was the US repatriating South American prisoners back to their native countries. This led to greater cohesion and cooperation between gangs that had previously been pretty much independent and reinforced arms and drugs trade across the continent. That experience may indicate its not a great idea to spread criminals around, although the devil’s in the details. I can’t really imagine the Latino Kings getting much traction in Anchorage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017.md?page=3)