# Easy Solution To Gangs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 2, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017 "2009-08-02T00:26:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/101 "2009-08-07T17:08:56Z")
> [@IAmNotSpartacus](#): > > Really? _You’re_ asking for a cite-- after all the questionable assertions you’ve been making?😕😕 Seriously, this conversation is not worth having because Curtis LeMay provides no cites for his absolutely wild assertions. He is all for expanding the role of government way beyond what even card carrying socialists like me are comfortable with. 😉 More incarcerations, more law enforcement, bigger social services department, busting up families, violating people’s civil rights, etc. All in the name of getting rid of gangs, but no consideration for other options, which actually have a fighting chance of getting rid of or weakening gangs. And no real world understanding or cites for his stance. That, and the way he starts every paragraph with “Look” – it’s not worth it. This isn’t a Great Debate. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/102 "2009-08-07T22:48:52Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > You’d be hard pressed to find people dying from pot. I personally tend to doubt that drug legalization would result in a serious spike in it’s usage especially if treatment (which is effective) replaces incarceration (which is ineffective). I wasn’t talking about pot, I was talking about hard drugs like cocaine or heroin. > [@](#): > > I was under the understanding that crime had gone down in California recently just as it had in the rest of the nation. Do you have some evidence to back this up? Do you think that it’s 3 strikes laws natonwide that have lead to this? Yes, crime has gone down in the rest of the Republic also but the reason for it’s decline is because in general of “get tough against crime” policy throughout the Republic. > [@](#): > > I am not sure this is true. Oftentimes prostitution will be a higher paying job then most menial jobs, thus a lot of girls may want to become prostitutes for the money. > [@](#): > > Yes, agreed, and when they don’t have the money from the black market trade to pay off cops it’s harder to keep cops on the payroll. Yes agreed. > [@](#): > > Cite please. Unfortunately there aren’t statistics I could find, but it’s pretty obvious that kids will be better off then in broken homes. > [@](#): > > Yea, the comparison makes absolutely no sense to me. What I meant is like arresting Nazi war criminals, arresting hard drug users and dealers in neccessary for justice despite the costs. > [@](#): > > Umm people in 1900 were straight destitute. Destitution leads to prostitution, not permissiveness. People are desitute to-day but are less likely to be whores because it’s illegal. > [@](#): > > Well I know personally that I have looked at more than thousands of unique people. I used to work in the porn industry, and just the one company had dozens of employees. > > Having trouble finding employment statistics. I’ll get back to you on it. Porn performers or people like clerks, CPAs, technicians, and other middlemen? > [@](#): > > There isn’t any evidence that being wards of the state works. Why does the state put so much effort into fosterage if orphanages are so much better? Because the Republic’s government thinks (foolishly in my opinion) that it’s better for kids to be in a family environment. Unfortunately a lot of foster parents are perverted pedophiles or abusers who deserve nothing less then to be shot in the back of the head. > [@](#): > > Good to hear. 😉 Yes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/103 "2009-08-07T23:16:13Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I wasn’t talking about pot, I was talking about hard drugs like cocaine or heroin. Fair enough I tend to be for legalization across the board, but I am uncomfortably so as it regards Cocaine and Heroin. > [@](#): > > Yes, crime has gone down in the rest of the Republic also but the reason for it’s decline is because in general of “get tough against crime” policy throughout the Republic. That’s definitely part of it. Though I don’t think it’s so much tougher policies as much as it is an increase in efficiency through superior information technology accompanied by a rise in prosperity across the board. > [@](#): > > Oftentimes prostitution will be a higher paying job then most menial jobs, thus a lot of girls may want to become prostitutes for the money. Yes, but the emotional cost is higher for prostitution which is why it’s not more prevalent. I dated a prostitute for a while. She didn’t like that life once she was in it. > [@](#): > > Yes agreed. Glad we’ve come to a point of commonality. 😉 > [@](#): > > Unfortunately there aren’t statistics I could find, but it’s pretty obvious that kids will be better off then in broken homes. Well the tough part is defining, ‘broken’, homes. > [@](#): > > What I meant is like arresting Nazi war criminals, arresting hard drug users and dealers in neccessary for justice despite the costs. I don’t agree that arresting hard drug users is necessary for justice. And the only thing that separates a drug dealer from any other businessman is legality. > [@](#): > > People are desitute to-day but are less likely to be whores because it’s illegal. Might see an uptick in prostitution but I doubt it’d be that massive. I think **Sage Rat** is really up on this issue. This is his one issue that he really cares about. > [@](#): > > Porn performers or people like clerks, CPAs, technicians, and other middlemen? Well all of the above really. But there are a whole host of porn performers. Remember this includes every webcam girl out there. > [@](#): > > Because the Republic’s government thinks (foolishly in my opinion) that it’s better for kids to be in a family environment. Unfortunately a lot of foster parents are perverted pedophiles or abusers who deserve nothing less then to be shot in the back of the head. Yeah, my issue with that idea isn’t so much that they wouldn’t be better off, just that their aren’t enough people to implement your idea. Remember you’d have to create a whole industry that currently doesn’t exist and there are all sorts of attendant risks there. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/104 "2009-08-07T23:42:28Z")
QUOTE=mswas;11422766]Fair enough I tend to be for legalization across the board, but I am uncomfortably so as it regards Cocaine and Heroin. [/QUOTE] Another thing we agree on. > [@](#): > > That’s definitely part of it. Though I don’t think it’s so much tougher policies as much as it is an increase in efficiency through superior information technology accompanied by a rise in prosperity across the board. Yes that’s true although some factors are both. For instance ankle bracelets are both high tech and part of “get tough with crime” > [@](#): > > Yes, but the emotional cost is higher for prostitution which is why it’s not more prevalent. I dated a prostitute for a while. She didn’t like that life once she was in it. But then why was prostitution so prevalent in the 1900s when policing was lax? > [@](#): > > Glad we’ve come to a point of commonality. 😉 Yes > [@](#): > > Well the tough part is defining, ‘broken’, homes. Well abusive, violent households or households that ignore their kids. > [@](#): > > I don’t agree that arresting hard drug users is necessary for justice. And the only thing that separates a drug dealer from any other businessman is legality. Not really as drugs are dangerous substances and I don’t think drug users give warnings. > [@](#): > > Might see an uptick in prostitution but I doubt it’d be that massive. I think **Sage Rat** is really up on this issue. This is his one issue that he really cares about. Interesting and who is Sage Rat and how come is this important to Sage Rat? > [@](#): > > Well all of the above really. But there are a whole host of porn performers. Remember this includes every webcam girl out there. Yeah but these girls usually also have “normal” jobs and porn is part of it. > [@](#): > > Yeah, my issue with that idea isn’t so much that they wouldn’t be better off, just that their aren’t enough people to implement your idea. Remember you’d have to create a whole industry that currently doesn’t exist and there are all sorts of attendant risks there. True, but many other agencies of government were strange or radical in the past. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017/105 "2009-08-07T23:59:44Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Another thing we agree on. Cool. > [@](#): > > Yes that’s true although some factors are both. For instance ankle bracelets are both high tech and part of “get tough with crime” Yes, but as I understand it one of the most effective anti-crime measures that has occurred recently is the ability to map crime reports in real time and beef up police presence in heavy crime areas. When you fight crime in one area it just moves over to the next neighborhood, but now they can track how the crime moves from one neighborhood to the next and police accordingly. > [@](#): > > But then why was prostitution so prevalent in the 1900s when policing was lax? Because everyone was destitute. That’s the time when we had massive immigration and people wouldn’t hire the Irish. The time of child labor and big machines taking off the arms of ten year olds. > [@](#): > > Well abusive, violent households or households that ignore their kids. Well if you take them from households that ignore their kids you’re going to be breaking up a lot of well to do homes. > [@](#): > > Not really as drugs are dangerous substances and I don’t think drug users give warnings. Well in that case regulation will stamp that out. Sell it over the counter with mandatory warning labels. > [@](#): > > Interesting and who is Sage Rat and how come is this important to Sage Rat? He’s a forum member, and I think he’s the one that is against legalizing prostitution. Try looking up posts by him, if it’s who I am thinking of he’s started many threads about it. > [@](#): > > Yeah but these girls usually also have “normal” jobs and porn is part of it. Yes, sometimes, and sometimes no. Sometimes they are party girls who support themselves any way they can. Othertimes housewives. They come from all walks of life really. > [@](#): > > True, but many other agencies of government were strange or radical in the past. True. But you are advocating a very sweeping nanny-state (literally) expansion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/easy-solution-to-gangs/505017.md?page=5)