# Eat a sandwich! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2006, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758 "2006-02-03T00:01:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/181 "2006-02-05T21:35:08Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > The only problems I’ve ever had with them (I wear them when we do historical costume events) is that you can’t bend at the waist or slouch. If your body is used to slouching, even with the support, you might feel a little sore later. I’ve been working on posture issues recently for a number of reasons, actually. The muscles along my spine are improperly toned due to my posture (slouching and some level of compensating for mild scoliosis) and could use the support. > [@](#): > > Secondly, make sure they’re fitted so that they don’t rub beneath the arms. I had one which rubbed painfully at the place where the armpit meets the side of the breast. It was hell. This is sort of what happened with my belt. It’s a hard leather belt, gorgeous red-brown, but now that my hips have finished broadening, it grinds into them. I’m thinking that if we get to the Crownsville Renfest (which is where I got it back when, and the vendor was still there last year) I’ll replace it. > [@](#): > > For your purposes, you don’t really need boning. A good heavy, canvas corset made with strong tucks instead of bones would do it. If you’re planning to wear it next to your skin (which I wouldn’t recommend) make sure it has a sturdy, comfortable lining. Otherwise, wear a light, cotton t-shirt under it. My vague hope is to find something without boning that I find attractive and not-tacky. (There are an unfortunately large number of corsets out there that I find tacky.) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/182 "2006-02-05T22:24:12Z")
Hey, btw, I just saw a new version of the Pizza Hut commercial that started the argument…with Miss Piggy instead! I love it! ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/183 "2006-02-05T22:27:28Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Hey, btw, I just saw a new version of the Pizza Hut commercial that started the argument…with Miss Piggy instead! I love it! Now that’s perfect. At least I can believe she’s eat the product she’s selling, and she doesn’t care about her love handles. My hero! ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/184 "2006-02-05T23:17:27Z")
I just saw the one with Jessica. . . that was dumb, by Super Bowl commercial standards. No, by any standards. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/185 "2006-02-05T23:46:19Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Yep, 13-14 year olds with big breasts who look like they’re 18. It’s true. I happen to know a 15-year-old with a pair of C-cups. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/186 "2006-02-06T00:48:59Z")
> [@Veuve\_ClicquotNJ](#): > > \ Are the Gap “reverse fit” jeans called “reverse fit”? > > Hourglassedly yours - > > VCNJ~ I’m not sure. But from what the other person posted (a year or so ago here), they did make sure that it was in the label so people would know. What ever you do, do NOT try Gloria Vanderbilt jeans, they not only run super small, but are weirdly shaped. too big in the waist, and WAY too big in the butt and thighs. Something or another Bay (sorry I wish I could remember) from JC Penney’s run big and have a nice hourglass shape to them, and they come in a variety of colors. If you sew patterns usually run VERY big. Like if you buy a size 6-8 pattern, it’s really more like a 10-12 pant or skirt that you’d find in a store. At least that’s how it was when I used to sew. Maybe they’ve changed too. The great thing about sewing though, is that you can tailor the clothes perfectly to your own figure. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/187 "2006-02-06T00:50:34Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > What ever you do, do NOT try Gloria Vanderbilt jeans, they not only run super small, but are weirdly shaped. too big in the waist, and WAY too big in the butt and thighs. Errr…that is supposed to be way too SMALL in the butt and thighs. I mean, whose butt is smaller than their waist? That’s just weird man 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/188 "2006-02-06T00:58:34Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Hmmm, what would the world be like if men saw an unending parade of other men in the media who were extremely fit, in shape and well toned? Just imagine a world so insane that men enjoyed watching professional sports! The difference is, that the media and society accepts athletes as what they are. That it is a job, and that they are there to entertain etc. It is not constantly shoved into men’s faces that they are failures as men if they don’t measure up to those particular types of men. > [@](#): > > The answer to your rhetorical question is that the world already is that way, and men just don’t give a flying fuck. You don’t hear men bitching about how Terrell Owens projects an unrealistic body image; you hear men denigrate him for being a loathesome tool. You don’t hear it because sports and athletes, as I said above, are viewed by society and the media as being just what they are. Magazine covers, the News shows and fellow male citizens aren’t constantly holding up people like Terrell Owens (I have no idea who that is :D), as what men SHOULD be, or they aren’t “real men”. THAT is the difference. > [@](#): > > Men also have the impossible standard in the entertainment industry with guys like Brad Pitt being held up as the ideal body. Again, we just don’t give a shit. Line up the numbers, though, and I’ll bet that there are just as many uber-fit men as there are ultra-thin women holding up impossible ideals. Asked and answered above. > [@](#): > > The problem is that women internalize every goddamn thing they ever see in relation to themselves. Narcissistic much? Excuse me? I was talking about women, society, men and the media in general. I wasn’t talking about myself. I don’t know where you got that dumb idea. > [@](#): > > By the way, what’s the address of this dreamworld you live in that contains no obstacles to John Goodman and that goofy-looking rail-thin guy from getting leading roles? Where did I say there were no obstacles to them having those roles? Do please re-read my post. I was talking about how the two different situations were portrayed in the media, and how the two different sitations (that of how men and their looks and women and theirs) were viewed by society. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/189 "2006-02-06T01:04:44Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Something or another Bay (sorry I wish I could remember) from JC Penney’s run big and have a nice hourglass shape to them, and they come in a variety of colors. If you sew patterns usually run VERY big. Like if you buy a size 6-8 pattern, it’s really more like a 10-12 pant or skirt that you’d find in a store. At least that’s how it was when I used to sew. Maybe they’ve changed too. > > The great thing about sewing though, is that you can tailor the clothes perfectly to your own figure. St. John’s Bay. Yep, sewing patterns are still the same. I’m something like a 19 or a 20 in patterns. And a 12-14 in clothes. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/190 "2006-02-06T01:11:07Z")
> [@amaranta](#): > > As I asked above, what dream world are you living in that (omigod here it is!) “Hollywood” women all have to conform to this body type? And where did I say that actresses have to conform to that body type? What I did say, and have been saying all along, is that the media and society (magazines, news, reviews all that rot, as well as a way too large number of men in this country) take this specific body type, and hold it up as THE example of female beauty, no others need apply. Even the poor girls who ARE gorgeous young actresses are constantly trying to attain perfection. As someone earlier posted about Lindsay Lohen on comments about how great she looked after she’d lost some weight “why, was I fat before”??? They’re not doing all that in a vacuum, or because it’s fun or something. When you’ve got a perfectly lovely young woman like Jessica Simpson, or Lindsay Lohen, and she too is trying to constantly change herself through surgery and so on, and even SHE isn’t “good enough” unless she’s this elusive “perfect” this is a bad message for the media to be constantly passing on as what we as women need to measure up to in order to be “real” women. Exactly what IS a “real woman” anyway? > [@](#): > > Women and men of all shapes and sizes get film and TV roles. Attractive men and attractive women usually get romantic film roles, because people like seeing sexy people be sexy. Women and men have a hard time getting roles after their beauty has peaked, but before they’re old enough to become character actors. Hollywood has standards for both sexes. Women just (suprise, suprise!) whine about it more. Again, I never said people couldn’t get movie roles if they didn’t fit the standard. Again, I’m talking specifically and ONLY about the bad messages sent by the media, and believed by society regarding what “should” be the standard of female beauty. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/191 "2006-02-06T04:55:39Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > Amen! I was running easily 6-8 miles 3-4 times a week and I was a size 14. I ran a half-marathon while I was what some people would consider fat (25 lbs over ideal weight for my height). 2 half ironmen at size 14. (plus marathons, half marathons, double centuries, half centuries, and swimming, the next thing will probably be a rollerskate marathon - cause it’s there, and has a greater potential for disaster than anything I’ve tried recently). Yes, I’m over the ideal weight for my height. I know it. But let’s not pretend that endurance exercise automatically equals thin. It can help, but you have no clue by just looking. (In fact, I tend to be thinner when I’m not working out than when I am.) And I’m surprised that you haven’t seen that at triathlons (where I commonly see women of multiple sizes, kicking ass and taking names). ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/192 "2006-02-06T05:02:20Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > I happen to know a 15-year-old with a pair of C-cups. I have students who are in the 7th grade, so 12-13, who are bigger than I am and look like full-grown women. They could pass for 18, easy. The problem is, they still have the sensibility of children, which means they are susceptible to all kinds of marketing manipulation and bullshit. They wear whatever the trend is, and right now the trend is half-shirts, low-riders, low-cut shirts, stuff like that. When I was that age, no only were fewer girls looking so grown up, but the fashions were not as constrictive and risque as they are now. It’s hard to look good in the clothes that are cool right now for teens unless you’re wafer thin. Hence, you might understand my vehemence about this topic and why it worries me that Jessica Simpson is the spokesperson for uber-fatty and high calorie pizza that she would never eat. The message seems to be that Jessica is endorsing this product by hawking it, and look how thin and busty she is! Why am I not like that? As an adult, I can see through this, but kids? They want to eat pizza. It’s quite confusing for them. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/193 "2006-02-06T05:41:10Z")
It isn’t Simpson’s looks that bother me so much as her “I’m stupid, isn’t it cute?” attitude. I applauded Reese Witherspoon for calling her and other celebs (Paris, I’m looking at you) for that. ---
**Author:** ![Batsinma\_Belfry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@Batsinma\_Belfry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batsinma_Belfry)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2006, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/194 "2006-02-06T07:45:09Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I know that women’s clothing sizes are exasperatingly un-standardized, but IME a 23" waist usually puts you in the size-6 range or thereabouts, while 35" bust and hips would make you a size 8 or 10. Merciful heavens, if a 5’7" 35-23-35 woman is a size 2, what would a 5’1" 30-22-28 woman have to wear? Size negative-4 or something? Nah, when I was a 30-21-28, I wore a size 5. I sell clothes. But the only time I’ve ever seen a size 0 is in jeans. Some jeans manufacturers use a larger variety of sizes, so that _their_ size 5 will fit someone who would normaly wear a size 9. This makes the customer very happy with that particular brand of jeans. ---
**Author:** ![Cemetery\_Savior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Cemetery\_Savior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cemetery_Savior)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/195 "2006-02-07T17:49:05Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > However, all people who say “sammich” are cutesy and irritating. Say that to every Chicago cop, construction worker, andSouth Sider, Excalibre. “Cutesy” may not be the best term. 🙂 -Cem ---
**Author:** ![Chotii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@Chotii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chotii)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/196 "2006-02-07T23:54:00Z")
At 4’10" and 115 lbs, I am frequently reassured that I look fine, and I am not fat at all…but my BMI is around 27, and the last time I checked my body fat was about 28%. Also, I despair of finding clothes that fit - forget men’s pants, if they fit my waist, they don’t fit my hips, and I have to cut them off and hem them up about 10". Petite sizes tend to assume that if you’re under 5’ tall you can’t weight more than 95 lbs dripping wet. I have one pair of pants that fits me and that I actually like. I found it in a thrift store and have been unable to find another, even on Ebay: Shaver Lake, petite size 8. I don’t even know who sells Shaver Lake. I’m between sizes. That means size 6 fit me if I stand up, but not if I sit down, and size 8s are sloppy and loose. Unless they’re Ralph Lauren, in which case they either fit fine or are so tight I can’t zip them. I hate womens’ clothing sizes. And I hate the implication inherent in womens’ clothing sizes, that there is no in between. You’d think I could wear a 7, wouldn’t you, if 6 and 8 are wrong? Wrong. 7 (and all odds) are Junior sizes, where 6 and 8 (and all evens) are Misses sizes, and don’t confuse them. Pants in size 7 are cut for thighs usually seen on…very thin teenaged girls. I can’t get them past my knees. I really wish that company that made jeans for women in a few hundred different sizes, to accommodate different waists, inseams, thighs, and hips…had stayed in business. I believe there are studies now that show cultures which previously had little contact with Western societies, begin experiencing a lot of eating disorders that never existed before, as people try to fit the Western concept of beauty and ‘healthy weight’. ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758/197 "2006-02-08T06:25:54Z")
Not that anyone will get this far, but I figured I might as well post my views. Thank you, **Quicksilver** , for starting this thread. I also was pretty annoyed at the, “eat something, you skinny bitch,” attitude that was displayed in that other thread but didn’t want to go into it there since it would have been a derailment. I’m not going to attack anyone or get into any arguments. I’m also not going to speculate on Simpson’s surgery or lack of; the truth is that no one knows for sure except her. One thing I can say is that she is _not_ too skinny. Looking at the original linked picture, you can clearly see good muscle tone in her legs. You can even see chest muscle from the side angle, and from the front you can see decent tone on her arms too. Her stomach muscles are not clearly visible–her abdomen shows a rounded outline of the muscles–which indicates that she has a layer of fat over well-developed stomach muscles. On the side view, she has a slight sag at the upper arm, indicative of fat deposits, and from the front, you can see creases at her armpits, which also show that she has a layer of fat under her skin. In the pictures, you can see that she’s got nice rounded hips, and though you don’t see it in those pictures, I remember from other pictures I’ve seen that she’s got a round rear too. She wouldn’t have either if she were underfed. You need a decent amount of both muscle and fat to get that look. From everything visible, she has a healthy amount of body fat for a woman who obviously exercises regularly and does not over-eat. The only advice I would give her is to do some more upper body work so that her development would be a bit more balanced. She probably concentrates on lower body workouts so that she doesn’t get “too big” in the upper body. If she worked her arms as much as she works her legs, I’d bet that she’d show a decent bulge in her biceps if she flexed. In my opinion, anyone whose reaction to seeing those pictures is that Jessica Simpson is too skinny has an unreasonable view of fitness. Yes, she has relatively low body fat, but she is not undernourished or unhealthy. I don’t think that either a perfectionistic or permissive attitude toward body shapes is good. An inflated ideal is harmful because some people try to change their natural form too much to conform to that ideal, whether that ideal is held by society at large or just in their own minds. The opposite view of greater tolerance for people being out of shape is harmful because it encourages people to make excuses or just not care when it comes to maintaining a healthy body weight. I was shocked at how many frankly obese people I saw in the US the last time I went back. People’s perceptions have been skewed so much by the average American’s body shape that they think that should be the norm. It should _not_ be the norm. My youngest sister gets snark all the time because she exercises regularly and eats a healthy diet. To most people’s eyes she’s “too skinny” and her “cheeks are hollow.” She’s actually got around 20 percent body fat, give or take a percent or two depending on her workout schedule. She’s in great shape and she doesn’t starve herself. She actually ate a bit more than I did when we had dinner together on my last visit. Healthy and in-shape apparently equals too skinny in many people’s perceptions. * * * On a slightly different topic, I’ll add that men’s sizes have changed too, it’s not just women’s sizes. I went back to the US for a visit this winter and while I was there I went shopping for jeans, since half of mine from 3-4 years ago have worn out and I’d lost some weight over the last year and a half. I figured that I was probably down to about a 31-32 inch waist since I was somewhere between 33-34 when I was overweight. I was sure that I hadn’t lost enough to get back to a 30 inch waist, since I haven’t been that skinny since I was putting in 3 hour workouts in swimming and diving back in high school. My old “skinny jeans,” which were 31x32, fit okay but I figured that they were probably stretched out a bit from my earlier weight gain. I tried on a couple of pairs of 32x32s in different styles, confident that they would fit but maybe be a bit loose. The damn things would have slid completely off if I didn’t have a decent butt. To get the waist to even get close to fitting, I had to go down to a 30x32, but then the thighs were too tight to be comfortable except in “Baggy” styles, which made me look like a wannabe hipster. Waist sizes in the US have inflated between 1 and 2 inches, and apparently the norm is not to have muscular legs anymore. I wasn’t able to find any brand that fit well. Granted, I haven’t been able to wear Levis 501s for years because my legs got too big when I started putting on bulk post-adolescence, but the waist size should not have changed since it’s supposedly based on the actual measurement. US clothing sizes are obviously a useless way of categorizing fitness or body type. Even men’s stuff doesn’t really fit the way it should. Hell, at 5’10", I should _not_ have to sometimes wear an XL shirt just so it fits okay in the shoulders. I’m not anywhere near as muscular as I would like to be and I’m starting to get to the edges of the current size charts. I used to be a solid L, XL would have been way too big. What do big guys, or guys who are in really good shape do to get clothes that fit? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eat-a-sandwich/342758.md?page=9)